Anon Wants To Give Up On RCIA: Too Many Women, Ignorant Priests, Seeks Advice

Personally I STRONGLY recommend that you enter the Church at a TRADITIONAL parish.

It will make a HUGE difference not only in the training you receive but also in the SACRAMENTS.

You will receive OLD RITE sacraments. You will be PROPERLY Christened. And you will receive CONDITIONAL Christening even if you were a protestant.

This is HUGE especially given the point in history we are faced with. You need to be a SOLDIER for CHRIST. You need the FULL ARMOR that is your right as a Catholic. Do NOT settle for less.

This will require you NOT to lose your will and to push forward and get this done I know. It would be easier to just go along with what you’re dealing with. There is certain risk.

BUT PRAY THE ROSARY. Every day. If on sometimes you fail — do NOT fail to say THREE HAIL MARYS. Every day pray for help in conforming your will to God’s

There’s lots more to explain, but to START, go here for help:
https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fevkn41k2ld5rpo1op4e2bfcb2&board=18.0

Directories of Traditional Masses

http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm

https://www.latinmassdir.org/

Watch Traditional Masses to learn about them:

https://www.latinmass.live/

I’ve resigned myself to members of the hierarchy of the institutional churches offering us laity what is in effect “Christianity: a personal view” and having to calibrate and correct this with reference to any documents that can be retrieved from the old days. My sticking point with the church is now whether to support this stuff financially, on the basis that if you want to stop people doing something, don’t pay them to do it. This being the principle on which I deal with ‘alumni appeals’ from the educational institutions I attended many years ago which are now infested with nonsense. It would be ideal to be able to support the ministry of a good priest or bishop and ensure that your donations are not siphoned off. Some people I once met set up a foundation to do this, the lawyers made sure it would be outside the control of the church.

Your search for Truth has led you to the Catholic Church. The particular parish you are beseeching for knowledge of the Faith seem to have only crumbs remaining… May the Holy Spirit enkindle them again.

Search for a reverent parish family. How? two ways… 1) do a search for “Adoration Chapels near me”. There will be some that have 24 hrs. (perpetual) and some that have designated hours. Visit those Churches for Mass. Generally, the more Adoration the parish has available, the more devout and knowledgeable their priest and parishioners will be, although not necessarily.

Second option, there is a website – reverentcatholicmass – wherein they map out Catholic Churches that pass the providers’ muster. I go to one that is on this list. When traveling I search out this site to guide me and have been grateful. These parishes often offer both Traditional Latin Mass and New Order Ad Orientum with some prayers in Latin. These people know their Catholicism.

Lastly, take a look at your entire family. Everyone is so different it is amazing that they are from the same genetic line, huh? well, that’s Catholic.

I would echo Kathleen’s post – seek out a traditional parish. When we moved to Texas we discovered the Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter, which I would greatly recommend.
https://ordinariate.net/
The liturgy is very traditional, which is what attracted me to it.

Speaking from experience, the Catholic Church is a microcosm of the rest of the world. Likewise, corruption and now WOKENESS (and worse!) exist at all levels. How true to the dogma and precepts varies from church to local church. Indeed, the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter (Latin: Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri; FSSP) consistently live up to the precepts. Another good one is The Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICKSP). Concerning the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), they have an “irregular” relationship with the Vatican. A suggestion: do some research to develop your informed conclusion about SSPX.

The above churches are “traditional” and use the 1962 (or earlier) missal and rubrics. A few diocesan churches are like that, and I am fortunate to be close to one and highly active. Another choice under the Latin Rite is the Ordinate of the Chair of St. Peter, which came about under the Pontificate of Benedict XVI. That is a sub-rite (lack of better word) consisting of former high Anglican churches with a beautiful English liturgy. Its rubrics are much like the Traditional Latin Mass.

After vacuum (oops Vatican) II, the liturgy and sacraments went into a rapid-fire psychedelic transformation. Known as the Novus Ordo Missae (new order of the Mass), one can find all sorts of nonsense, such as clown masses. However, in all fairness, there are good Novus Ordo churches too (traditional vestments, the priest facing our Lord as with the congregation, no talking in the nave, distribution of the blessed sacrament on the tongue, etc.). It will take you a lot of research to find the good ones. And for balanced reporting, be careful; there have been a few instances where the evil one has stuck his hot poker into traditional churches.

Lastly, there is one overlooked beautiful alternative. The Eastern Catholic Church (in “communion” with Rome) has many Rites, such as the Byzantine Catholic Church. Magnificent liturgy, rubrics, and architecture (for the most part).

Sic transit gloria mundi (Thus passes worldly glory)

Fred

Do the rituals, say the prayers. The rituals and the prayers are designed (if they are truly “catholic”) to conform your mind to the reality of the Cross – the one Christ was crucified on and the one you must bear to… get to heaven. That cross you bear is for your whole life, not just for when you’re saying the prayers and assisting in the ritual.

I hate to say a lot of people miss this, but a lot of people miss this. Conformity of the mind to the reality of the Cross means conforming your life to the reality of the Cross, bearing your own cross, and helping your brother bear his.

I recommend Dr. G.C. Dilsaver’s _Crucial Christianity_ if you want to read more about this.

Also, Catholicism has a number of available rites (Byzantine, TLM, Novus Ordo…) and a ridiculous volume of devotions and prayers… it’s impossible to do it all. Find what speaks to you and draws you closer to the reality of Christ crucified and helps you carry your own cross.

I am a convert and started out RCIA at a parish almost as bad as the one you describe. I changed to a traditional parish after the RCIA director said God could be a she. My conversion story from atheist to Catholic is posted on my website at https://AtheistToCatholic.com.

Also I have another article on “Why Become a Catholic in the End Times?” In it, there is a link to a traditional mass locator.

It’s critical to seek out a traditional parish. Try to find a priest who will give you individual instruction over several weeks.

Since your current priest is wearing a mask, your current parish belongs to the anti-church. You must flee that one.

Do persist in your conversion, because the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Jesus Christ. God bless you!

All of the other responses are excellent but if I’m asked why I’m Catholic, I simply say ‘because it is the Truth’. Seek the truth in all things says the Lord. Also, if nothing else let the thought of receiving the Eucharist be what keeps you in RCIA – for it is Heaven on Earth, believe me. Also, the Protestants’ goal of getting to Heaven is a valid one and the Catholic Church is the best way to get there. Please don’t give up – remember you are embracing the Faith, not the fallible humans who run it and/or sit next to you in the pew. We are all sinners but Christ’s church will last to the end of time. We have His word on it.

I went through RCIA , long ago. In love w doctrine and nonplussed by the lack of it , in class. Felt banners, singalongs, the monstrous regiment of secular churchy women actually lefty provocateurs.
O yes. But a couple of nuns , from the local priory had designated hitter speaking slots too.
They didnt talk doctrine. They just Loved Jesus.
They didnt try to package and deliver Jesus like a parcel. They just loved Him and I began to love Him too , because of them. Love them too, O yes.
Skip the self administered Pharisee credentialing anxieties. Dont overthink yourself apart from Who He Is. Loving Him. That’s the goal.

Frank Sheed:

Theology & Sanity
Society & Sanity

Oh Anon, if you only knew how many people your inquiry represents. I’ll try to be concise.
You’ve already gotten some great feedback.
Bottom line, the mainstream church right now is in freefall or schism. Nobody wants to say it, but it’s true. The mainstream church (Novus Ordo, bishops, cardinals, pope) are rife with men who do not hold the Catholic faith. You must learn to operate in a hijacked system. The true church is out here and will never change, but we are in enemy territory and must know how to survive battle conditions. We need men, so if you are one, we need you. Our children, culture, and world suffer because our men have abandoned the faith, leaving us “Susan of the Parish Council” to run things. Knowing the faith is the same as it always was, and seeking to avoid the trap of heresy and apostasy and wokeness much of the church has become, read vintage materials, before 1962-ish. Consider the SSPX. I attend a faithful diocesan Traditional Latin Mass, but give NO money to the parish, only gift cards to the faithful priest. (I will not support Rome) If that ends due to this pope’s demonic attack on the worship of God, I will go SSPX, regardless of what Rome ever does or says. The TLM will be to you like manna from heaven, and it is. You will be present at the Sacrifice of Our Lord and Savior on the cross in a way you have not been, and you will not forget it. You will be drawn back week after week by Catholicism unadulterated by the nonsense too many NO masses are in the mainstream church. You will find a holy hour where this world is suspended in it’s misery, and you see the faith whole and entire, and you get to be present, and participate in a worship of God that is as much as poor human creatures can offer. GO. If you need a Sunday Missal, buy one pre-1962 on Ebay for about $25. St. Joseph’s is a fine one. It has to have Latin on one page and English on the other. Don’t worry about the Latin, you will come to know much of what is being said, trust me. It repeats. Don’t think about responses, there are not many, and absolutely nobody cares whether or not you know them. They are thinking about God.
Stick with it, never give it up. We are surely in some descent to end times, God is very near. Cling to Him with everything you’ve got, and don’t let for a second, the mainstream madness take you away from Him. Fight like the rest of us, pray to St. Michael, pray the Rosary especially, I do that when I take walks. Right now, the Rosary is very much needed. It is a powerful prayer and you are needed in the battle. Gird up, and get going. God bless you.
(PS: Blogs like Canon212 are helpful for getting a fix on what is going on generally.)

I went through RCIA last year after 25+ years of making excuses to not convert. I attended RCIA in my local parish, which seems similar to the one you are attending.

I agree with our host and strongly suggest you gut it out. Do not quit and find another parish and delay and restart RCIA.

You seem to have good knowledge about the Church and the Catechism, and can identify what makes this parish and RCIA program weak and improper. Therefore, learn by example; in this case, the negative or incorrect example you are experiencing. Be a light to the other Catechumens and plant a seed in them to learn more about the Church and the faith.

Gut it out and get confirmed ASAP. You need the Church. The Church needs you. See this as an obstacle to overcome, to strengthen your patience and faith.

In a comment above, Marianne wrote something important to consider: “if nothing else let the thought of receiving the Eucharist be what keeps you in RCIA – for it is Heaven on Earth, believe me.” I agree completely.

You can locate a better parish and attend Traditional Masses during and after RCIA. The few months in RCIA will pass quickly. Gut it out so that one day soon we can all welcome you into the Church.

I concur with Kathleen’s comments. Do not give up on the One True Faith. Seek it out like the pearl of great price that it is. It is not unheard of for folks to drive long distances to attend a TLM. Mine is 2 hours away but I know folks who have driven 3 or even 4 hours to get to mass. You must ask yourself “What is more important in my life than being able to be baptized/confirmed in the One True Faith?” Nothing is more important. For you and your household, and you, being the head of the household, must set the precedent and lead. God bless you and I will pray for you and your family.

I concur with the other commenters who suggest the Traditional Mass. it is worth the travel time.
If it is really prohibitively far for you check out this site that identifies reverent parishes/ masses.
https://reverentcatholicmass.com/map
Whatever you do get on the Ark. The flood waters are rising.

I hope this helps.

This happened to me, too. The female head of adult formation told me to stay Methodist, that her husband was Methodist! RCIA was awful and I told them so. I largely catechized myself and then joined the Church through the TLM. If you read churches websites and bulletins you can find solid priests, even in the N.O. Look for Adoration and Confession to be frequent and highlighted. Watch out for Francis worship. Bulletins are great resources for evaluating a Parish.

Once you find a legit priest ask for private instruction. You won’t regret it. Read, read, read, and Pray the Rosary every day.

If you can find a TLM, by all means go. It’s beautiful and the people are wonderful.

Let not the weakness and vicissitude of the King’s servants blind you to the Strength and Fortitude of the King or His cause.

1 Corinthian 1:27
“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;”

Or, put more scathingly by Hilaire Belloc, “The Catholic Church is an institution I am bound to hold divine – but for unbelievers a proof of its divinity might be found in the fact that no merely human institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight”

Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium 12 says: “The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One, (111) [cf. 1 Jn 2:20, 27] cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples’ supernatural discernment in matters of faith when “from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful” (8*) they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals. That discernment in matters of faith is aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth.”
This is the same spiritual discernment that Paul speaks of in 1Corinthians 2:9-16. The V2 reference to 1John 2:20, 27 says: “But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things…But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
This is a very empowering statement from V2 for all of the faithful, including the laity. In light of this, the present views among most Catholics concerning the roles of clergy and laity may need some adjusting.
Our job is to “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1Thessalonians 5:21).

The Mrs and I attended a funeral where they did handholding during Our Father. She was totally creeped out. She doesn’t even like holding hands with me!

My advice. Find a solid Catholic mentor. Not easy to do.
Start at a Traditional Mass – this is essential.
Get a 1962 Missal – follow the Mass with the Missal.
Read the English as well as the Latin. Doesn’t need perfection. You will frequently get lost but just concentrate on the purpose of the Mass. You may discover that after a while you are developing a Sensis Catholicus – a Catholic mind.
Simply ask our Lord to give you guides and guidance along the way. Use you’re faculties of discernment.
Meditate about the Faith while praying the Rosary.

I was received into the Church on Pentecost of 2020, as our parishes were shut down weeks before I was to be confirmed. I was going to RCIA where it was convenient, and most of it was vapid. I had been a political dissident for several years but sought answers from the Church after discovering much of the critiques of liberalism and modernism over the past few centuries came from Catholics and the Catholic Church. My girlfriend at the time, now wife, was a cradle Catholic. She had taken me to a few Masses that were loyal to Sacrosanctum Concilium, which means they looked quite a bit like the Mass from prior to the Second Vatican Council. My wife also has one brother who is a priest with a licentiate and another brother who is a Franciscan monk, so I have been blessed, to say the least.

FOR YOU:

I discovered the Thomistic Insitute and Aquinas 101 during my classes and that is where most of my RCIA took place. In their lectures and online material, I was given dozens of sources to study in-depth. That is where I became Catholic. Every time something intrigued or perplexed me in physical RCIA classes, I went to TI, then usually to at least one Doctor of the Church. Without fail, I was left baffled by the sophistication, rigor, and breadth of the arguments for Catholic doctrine and Dogma.

Ultimately, I became Catholic because whenever I would go to the catechism(s), Doctors of the Church, and classic doctrinal documents, I could only conclude that they were correct. At least, I had no substantive argument against anything they offered. Your example of transubstantiation is a good one. There is no debate in the Catholic Church about it. In fact, every Christian believed it until just before the Reformation. The True Presence has been maintained by Christians since the first century (see Ignatius of Antioch), and the understanding of it was more fully defined in the thirteenth century as “transubstantiation.” Once it is understood that the True Presence was maintained by the Apostles, the disciples of the Apostles, and all of their disciples for more than a dozen centuries later, it is impossible to critique transubstantiation, especially if you read St. Thomas Aquinas.

During RCIA there were mountains of doctrine for me to learn, but I realized that I needed to learn within the Catholic Church rather than from the outside. RCIA can at best scratch the surface. My advice is to continue with RCIA, become Catholic, and get your teaching elsewhere. Your best bet is to look to the Dominican priests, as they are mostly traditional, practice an 800-year old rite of Mass, and are specifically gifted to preach and teach — that is the charism of St. Dominic’s order.

If you are the intellectual type, go straight to the Summa Theologiae and commentaries. Walter Farrell, Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, Jacques Maritain, and others are excellent sources for the Thomistic picture, which is the philosophy/theology of the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.

Eventually, it will have to travel from the head to the heart. Prayer and adoration is necessary. For this, most churches are good, but beauty is central to the Catholic faith, as that which is true and good is beautiful. So, find a beautiful church.

The FSSP is good for Mass, not necessarily for teaching. Do not get caught in the SSPX/SSPV crowds, as they are rife with schismatic attitudes, despite all the claims otherwise. I do not have the space to get into that here, but this (https://medium.com/catholicism-coffee/the-sspx-and-its-offsprings-49a90b851f36) is a good, short guide to the differences. I would recommend attending Mass at an FSSP parish if it is available but learn from those who are squarely intent on understanding the Second Vatican Council in light of Tradition. The FSSP basically shirks the debate entirely, while SSPX/SSPV have strong reservations about it, sometimes claiming it needs to be scrapped entirely. If there is a Novus Ordo parish near you with ad orientem (facing the altar) Mass, Gregorian chant, incense, Latin, and the rest, check it out as well. These are as rare as FSSP parishes.

Other recommendations are Scott Hahn’s books and the Ignatius New Testament Study Bible. Frank Sheed’s Theology and Sanity. As for YouTube, Trent Horn for solid, reasoned arguments for Catholicism, Reason & Theology on YouTube.

Anon, here is an excellent resource.
https://www.olmcfssp.org/welcome/becoming-catholic/
Order the Baltimore Catechism #2. Download and listen to the entire Catechism, with comments and anecdotes. Do what it takes to move to an FSSP, ICKR or SSPX parish. Find a new job, sell your home and move. “Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi” means something. It will be very difficult to stay true to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church in your Novus Ordo parish. I did just that in 2015, and I thank God daily that I did. My local FSSP parish (Saint Joan of Arc) is superb.

I was received into the Church on Pentecost of 2020, as our parishes were shut down weeks before I was to be confirmed. I was going to RCIA where it was convenient, and most of it was vapid. I had been a political dissident for several years but sought answers from the Church after discovering much of the critiques of liberalism and modernism over the past few centuries came from Catholics and the Catholic Church. My girlfriend at the time, now wife, was a cradle Catholic. She had taken me to a few Masses that were loyal to Sacrosanctum Concilium, which means they looked quite a bit like the Mass from prior to the Second Vatican Council. My wife also has one brother who is a priest with a licentiate and another brother who is a Franciscan monk, so I have been blessed, to say the least.

FOR YOU:

I discovered the Thomistic Insitute and Aquinas 101 during my classes and that is where most of my RCIA took place. In their lectures and online material, I was given dozens of sources to study in-depth. That is where I became Catholic. Every time something intrigued or perplexed me in physical RCIA classes, I went to TI, then usually to at least one Doctor of the Church. Without fail, I was left baffled by the sophistication, rigor, and breadth of the arguments for Catholic doctrine and Dogma.

Ultimately, I became Catholic because whenever I would go to the catechism(s), Doctors of the Church, and classic doctrinal documents, I could only conclude that they were correct. At least, I had no substantive argument against anything they offered. Your example of transubstantiation is a good one. There is no debate in the Catholic Church about it. In fact, every Christian believed it until just before the Reformation. The True Presence has been maintained by Christians since the first century (see Ignatius of Antioch), and the understanding of it was more fully defined in the thirteenth century as “transubstantiation.” Once it is understood that the True Presence was maintained by the Apostles, the disciples of the Apostles, and all of their disciples for more than a dozen centuries later, it is impossible to critique transubstantiation, especially if you read St. Thomas Aquinas.

During RCIA there were mountains of doctrine for me to learn, but I realized that I needed to learn within the Catholic Church rather than from the outside. RCIA can at best scratch the surface. My advice is to continue with RCIA, become Catholic, and get your teaching elsewhere. Your best bet is to look to the Dominican priests, as they are mostly traditional, practice an 800-year old rite of Mass, and are specifically gifted to preach and teach — that is the charism of St. Dominic’s order.

If you are the intellectual type, go straight to the Summa Theologiae and commentaries. Walter Farrell, Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, Jacques Maritain, and others are excellent sources for the Thomistic picture, which is the philosophy/theology of the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.

Eventually, it will have to travel from the head to the heart. Prayer and adoration is necessary. For this, most churches are good, but beauty is central to the Catholic faith, as that which is true and good is beautiful. So, find a beautiful church.

The FSSP is good for Mass, not necessarily for teaching. Do not get caught in the SSPX/SSPV crowds, as they are rife with schismatic attitudes, despite all the claims otherwise. I do not have the space to get into that here, but this (https://medium.com/catholicism-coffee/the-sspx-and-its-offsprings-49a90b851f36) is a good, short guide to the differences. I would recommend attending Mass at an FSSP parish if it is available but learn from those who are squarely intent on understanding the Second Vatican Council in light of Tradition. The FSSP basically shirks the debate entirely, while SSPX/SSPV have strong reservations about it, sometimes claiming it needs to be scrapped entirely. If there is a Novus Ordo parish near you with ad orientem (facing the altar) Mass, Gregorian chant, incense, Latin, and the rest, check it out as well. These are as rare as FSSP parishes.

Other recommendations are Scott Hahn’s books and the Ignatius New Testament Study Bible. Frank Sheed’s Theology and Sanity. As for YouTube, Trent Horn for solid, reasoned arguments for Catholicism, Reason & Theology on YouTube.

“The biggest thing, though, is there’s a major focus on “getting to heaven”. I struggle with this a lot because this seems like a very protestant mindset—do the rituals, say the prayers, then get to heaven. Isn’t there more to it than just “this is a bump on the road to heaven”? God’s Creation is good by his own word. Isn’t there value in the here and now more than just “getting to heaven”?”

Using one’s prayer life (interior life, as referred to by some of the saints) to make as full use as possible of the Sacraments is fundamental to the Faith. This involves living a moral & virtuous life exteriorly (through action) as well as seeking as close a friendship with Christ as possible interiorly (through prayer). The exterior ceremonies of the Sacraments all carry deeper significance than simple motions to be gone through, and for questions on that, seek answers in places like the various catechisms available (spring for the Catechism of Trent if possible).

RCIA is by many accounts something of a nightmare. It’s not beyond imagination that some of the people in class might know more about Catholic doctrine and history than the laity who lead it do. Maybe it seems like asking a lot, but have patience. The point to RCIA, nowadays at least, seems to be to suffer through it until you’re given the OK to be received in full communion with the Church. At least it’s not college.

The most important part of this is prayer, however. Take up a daily devotion, like the Rosary. That’s what it exists for. Also read. Read the saints; Augustine’s Confessions, Teresa of Avila’s Interior Castle, Catherine of Sienna, Bonaventure’s Journey of the Soul to God, etc. These are fairly accessible but immensely deep and help to bring out things that may seem obscured by both contemporary life and simple Biblical exegesis. And continuing to read your Bible, of course, should go without saying.

One does not join the Church as a political statement. One joins it because it is true, its foundations are true, its doctrines and dogmas are true, and what it offers is the Truth Himself. RCIA is the vestibule of the sanctuary, and right now, that vestibule is cluttered with people who you might think don’t seem to belong there, and half-barricaded with broken furniture or debris of failed experiments. You’re almost inside. Don’t turn away now.

Stick with it but read the Catechism of Trent or take Fr. Hardon’s Catechism class available online and at the direction of Cardinal Burke. Fr. Hardon personally asked Cardinal Burke to oversee this program. You will be better formed than most religion teachers. Pray for guidance from your guardian angel. God bless you

RCIA programs are run mainly by volunteers and the quality varies widely. I have been RCIA director at my Cathedral Parish for 15 years. I threw out all of the materials collected by my predecessors and developed a series of talks that teach the faith systematically starting with the articles of the Nicene Creed, followed by detailed teaching on the Sacraments, the Moral Life, and Prayer. All Catholic teaching is built on certain foundations and world view, and everything is totally connected, and in my opinion, needs to be taught based on that. Your experience may be colored by the level of education, teaching skill, and understanding of the catechist. Please be aware that all catechists have strengths and weaknesses. Nonetheless, there are mountains of materials, reading, podcasts, etc., on Catholic teaching. My suggestion is to get what you can from your teacher and dive deeply into other sources to learn as well.
When I went through RCIA 20 years ago, the nun who taught us wanted us to call God “Father/Mother,” and to make sacred spaces to meditate in. But she also showed great love for us and gave of herself. I reject most of the catechetical formation and went on to embrace orthodox and traditional Catholicism. So, use your RCIA for what it gives you, and take the responsibility to learn on your own as well.

Dear Anon and your dear Spouse,

I cannot agree with all the pious Debbie Downers who have commented, nor even with our esteemed host. Their ‘advice’ is to shop around for your religion? Or else What? The sacraments don’t work if a validly ordained sitting Catholic priest under a validly ordained sitting Catholic bishop is a mite too Woke?

One of the glories of being Catholic is that you no longer have to be so f’ing ‘earnest’. The convert Scott Hahn tells a story on himself: at the very Easter Vigil in which he was received into the Catholic church, he at least once noticed that he had gotten so wrapped up in everything that he had forgotten to Pay Detailed Conscious Attention.

Then he realized that he was becoming a Catholic now — and he didn’t have to do that anymore. What was happening was Not His Fault, and Not His Job, and Not His Doing. He was entering into the freedom of the greatest Gift. Showing up and just breathing was a pretty good start on that.

As for ‘getting to Heaven’ — that language is a little imprecise. Listen! Unless you are very unfortunate, you will be able to look around a Catholic church and see a Crucifix with Jesus hanging from it, and images and/or statues of His Mother Mary, St. Joseph, and angels and saints.

Those pictures and statues are there for a reason. Because Holy Mass is so powerful, all the angels and saints in the whole world are there, with you, as Jesus’s One Sacrifice is made re-present, in signs that cause what they signify.

The term is ex opere operato: “by the work, it works.” This is a work of the Risen Christ with His bride, directly in your history, directly as you breathe, then and there. And you can only begin to have an answer to your question: “How can this be?” when you answer Our Lord’s prior question to you: “Who do you say that I am?”

At each and every Catholic Mass, Our Lord’s death does not recede into the past or become a fading memory — which you have to work hard to reclaim. NO! Your main job is to show up and keep breathing. By His work, it works.

And when you are finally received into the Catholic Church and can eat the One Bread, you are, again in signs that cause what they signify, one body with all the angels and saints, with Mary, and with Our Lord.

So, what do we call a communion with the Lord, with His Mother, and with all the angels and saints in the whole world?

BY DEFINITION, that is Heaven. Offered on the back of a jeep on a battlefield, at a hospice — and at your dumb little parish.

So “getting to Heaven” is a little imprecise. Holy Mass is not just a ‘symbol’ of Heaven; by definition, by He Who is holy, Holy Mass makes Heaven present to your history, as you breathe, right now.

The hard part is accepting the invitation. The hard part is embracing that Gift and uttering it into your personal history of “prayers, works, joys, and sufferings of this day.”

In union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass throughout the world, the hard part is holding up your end, with all the angels and saints. The hard part is not “getting to Heaven”; the hard part is staying there, until all your breaths have been breathed.

Read the messages of Our Lady of Medjugorje.

Debbie Downer Scott Hahn made the decision move to the Traditional Mass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HTTTzNSHHo

Some of the most devout, holy people I know entered the Church in similar conditions — one after being told (by a priest) not to bother with RCIA or formally joining the Church because being a good person was all he needed to do! But he kept with it and found a priest and parish, and you should also. The parish he found wasn’t perfect, and wasn’t ultimately the one where he ended up for good. But it was there when he needed it.
There is nothing wrong with looking for a parish or RCIA program that is more reverent and faithful, but it is NOT NECESSARY. The priest I work with just reminded me yesterday that if Christ is present, then He is present — the end. If you reject that place (if, for example, you’re there for Mass for an event, or while visiting an area, and don’t go to Mass at all rather than go there) then you’re rejecting Christ, too. If this parish is the only place you can go (or the one that works in your schedule) then go. Many parishes are in a similar state. Many aren’t. We can’t guarantee any that are bad (or good) will stay that way. We don’t have to. Imagine what parishes were like after the French revolution! Yet many saints came from those days. God takes care of His Church, we take care of our part of it and of ourselves.

It can be disheartening. Yes, sometimes laity know theology better than priests. Sometimes this is because priests aren’t interested, or even particularly smart. And sometimes this is because they are running parishes, praying, visiting the sick, and doing a great deal of pastoral work rather than theological studies. I am not saying to stay with a terrible place if others are available. But don’t look forever for the “perfect” parish, either.

Finally, if you are not familiar with the Coming Home Network, check them out. They’re great people — give them a call. They can help you!! https://chnetwork.org/

Hello and welcome to the Catholic Church. There will be no victory until we clean out the mess.

I echo others that said “find tradition”. I am a cradle Catholic that has moved over to the Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter. Our parish doesn’t own a building so we are shacked up with the only church in town with a TLM. Our congregations now move back and forth between the different Masses because both are so beautiful.

Most churches are in a bad way here in Victoria BC (That’s also the opinion of a Polish Novus Ordo priest that just got here). However, both Latin Mass and Ordinariate congregations at Queen of Peace church are growing massively. We (Ordinariate) have had new members from all over the world. New Mexican family, new family from Argentina, new family from Puerto-Rico, new mixed Japanese/Canadian family, two new Indian couples. The church is *always* full of kids.

I disagree with Briggs. Now is the best time to be alive for those that love the God of Life and seek martyrdom. The battle lines are clear and the Holy Spirit is with us. Deus Vult.

Dear Anon:

I encourage you to continue getting the basics of the Roman Catholic Faith where you will find that Catholicism is not merely a bump on the road to Heaven. Yes, God’s Creation is good, and there is value in the here and now.

You are body and soul and have an interior life (life of the soul), and as a Catholic you are in a state of grace by reception of Catholic sacraments, which means that in the here and now you are participating in divine life of God in the Blessed Trinity.

You also have life of body (animated by soul) for your day-to-day activities, e.g., family life, employment, recreation all of which are to be performed above all for the greater honor and glory of God with your principle virtue being humility in the sight of God. Rooted in humility you please Jesus Christ by practicing virtue through love of neighbor. In the here and now.

To say the very least, Catholicism as the organizing principle of one’s life is the antidote to moral chaos that envelops the United States and the rest of the World.

For starters get two catechisms: Baltimore Catechism No 2 which skims the surface in a systematic exposition of the Faith, and the Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X, a comprehensive, in depth presentation of what the Catholic Faith has always been. Go to: http://catechism.cc/Catechism_of_Pope_Saint_Pius_X.html

In you can, find a practicing Bronx Irish Catholic who attended and finished Catholic grammar school and Catholic high school before Vatican II was fully implemented (c. 1970). We’re old, we’re still around, we love the Catholic Church, and are delighted to be able to help you.

P J Walsh, BIC.

Spiritual reading is very helpful. I reccomend ‘The Imitation of Christ’ by Thomas à Kempis, ‘Introduction to the Devout Life’ by St. Frances de Sales, all the writings of St. Alphonsus Liquori, anything by Father Frederick Faber.

This website, http://www.traditionalcatholic.co/free-catholic-books-ii/, has a plethora of free downloadable books.

Persevere dear soul. Catholicism is the only answer and the only way.

Welcome home to the Barque of Peter where the chaos and infighting are worse inside than out. But home you are and there is no other. I would suggest two things: first you must learn/study/understand the history of Holy mother Church especially as it pertains to the last 60 years were a “new faith” was forced on us (Novus Ordo). And secondly, you MUST come in through a Traditional parish (ICKSP, FSSP, SSPX, and quickly since we are likely going to be limited very soon). To summarize in a sentence what you may spend the rest of your life figuring out: Novus Ordo Catholics think the church was born in 1962 (no one before that ever heard of RCIA ?) and Traditional Catholics know it was born at the Last Supper when Our Lord instituted His priesthood 2000 years ago. Ask Our Lady to guide your every step. Many Blessings to you and your wife!?

Dear Anon and loved ones,
Worship your Heavenly Father and follow His Son, Jesus. Learn “The Lord’s Prayer”.
Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Find like minded Jesus people and spend your time with them.
Learn the words to these Hymns; “Of The Father’s Love Begotten”, “All Creatures of Our God and King” and “Be Thou My Vision”.
Pray always and everywhere.
Fear God, only and do not worry; God will take care of you.

Regarding women as instructors: Recall that, except for John, all the men abandoned Jesus, at the Cross, but the women did not. Even in Apostolic times, there was Prisca and Phoebe. Later. when Bl. Robert d’Arbrissel was looking for someone to head up the dual abbey of Fontevrault, he settled on they young Petronilla of Chemillé, putting her in charge of the monks as well as the nuns. In between and since, men took instruction from such as S. Gertrude of Helfta, S. Hildegarde of Bingen (Doc. Eccl.), S. Catherine of Sienna (Doc. Eccl.), S. Theresa of Avila (Doc. Eccl.), S. Thérèse of Lisieux (Doc. Eccl.). One solution yo the perception of “too few men instructors” is for more men to take a serious interest in church business.
As far as returning to traditional practices, this often means the practices of the liturgical reforms of the 1950s under Pius XII, which implemented such novelties as the Easter Vigil, the evening Mass for Holy Thursday, and afternoon service for Good Friday. On occasion, it means returning to the reforms of S. Pius X in the 1910s. Seldom does it mean returning to Tridentine, let alone pre-Tridentine traditions. No one proposes re-introducing Aramaic into the liturgy [save the Maronite Rite, which utilizes Aramaic for the words of Consecration, although Syriac or even Arabic elsewhere.]

“RCIA” is the problem. Find a traditional alternative if you can; a traditional priest who will give instruction. Stick it out if not; it sounds as though you have an instinct for heterodoxy (I mean, against it) which you should trust.

That instinct should lead you to distrust “messages” from Medugorje.

Good luck!

You do not have to go “Traditional,” in order to be a good Catholic. You can do so in a novus ordo parish, but it is easier to get the solid truth at a Traditional parish.

Mostly, you will have to take responsibility for your own education. RCIA will not be sufficient, even if it is the best version at a traditional parish. Get a couple of catechisms, including those of Pius X, Trent, Baltimore, and the current approved version (1992?). Study those and see how they relate to the creeds and prayers.

For a good and interesting site, check out fisheaters.com. It is pretty good stuff there, in my opinion.

Read the lives of the Saints, read almost anything published by TAN books, and be very skeptical of modern writings that denigrate scripture, and especially those who downplay miracles, the Incarnation, the Ressurrection, or the Immaculate Conception. There has always been an effort to water down or distort the Faith.

And do your best to develop a good prayer life, esp. mental prayer. Include reading scripture and the writings of the Saints in your daily routine.

And don’t give up! You are on the right path!

Ye Olde Statistician, I think you have missed the point of the difficulty Anon is raising. He is not helped by knowing that there were extraordinary women in history (saints almost all of them!) who were given extraordinary tasks in extraordinary circumstances. I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t object to having a saint instruct him in the faith, regardless of the sex of the instructor. Nor is he helped by being told that perhaps more men should be involved in the instruction if he wants to be instructed by more men.

@buckylinky: Though perhaps he might find comfort in that women by nature being drawn to “helping” vocations, it should not be unusual to find them as instructors in RCIA.

Catechism is properly taught by priests.

Anything else is part of the deliberate usurping of the role of Christ’s Holy Priesthood that has been inflicted upon us for the last 60 years.

As far as our souls and the Novus Ordo, it’s possible to survive. It’s also possible to survive physically by trying to suck stray drops of dew off rocks. It takes serious effort to tread water spiritually in the Novus Ordo world.

We are intended to by Our Lord to thrive. Great, gushing, torrents of grace is what he intends for us.

You get what you pray for is the old saying. The Novus Ordo doesn’t pray for a sliver of what the Ancient and Eternal Rite does.

I’m sure it is every bit as awful as you describe. But we need to prioritize in these trying times, and priority #1 is to get in the boat. Just get in. Whatever is the quickest way, if you are already halfway through a program, keep your head down, grit your teeth and get in the boat. Once you’re in, you can do whatever you need to do, but you are going to need to find Tradition. It might mean moving, but your soul depends on it. Be assured of my prayers.