Statistics

Court Bashes Vax-Or-Starve Dictate; UK Vax Terrible Efficacy Revealed; More — Coronavirus Update CVI

AUSTRIANS CONCENTRATING ON COVID

DAYS OF YORE

That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun.

BRRRRRRRR

Now what could be the cause, dear Experts? It can’t be cold air by itself. It has to be something else.

All you lockdown fans, please answer first.

HERE COME DA JUDGE

Much good news in Fifth Circuit’s reaffirming the stay of Biden’s dictate, which happened late last Friday. The Court order can be found here.

First, and obvious, the stay remains in place until a full review. If Biden again dictates “Ignore the Court”, we have a real cold civil war upon us. By “Biden” I of course mean those telling him what to say.

Second, Court said “We first consider whether the petitioners’ challenges to the Mandate are likely to succeed on the merits. For a multitude of reasons, they are.”

This is cheering. Then this juicy bit, to which we can all say Amen (I don’t attempt to reproduce all the italics and special marks):

We begin by stating the obvious. The Occupational Safety and Health Act, which created OSHA, was enacted by Congress to assure Americans “safe and healthful working conditions and to preserve our human resources.” See 29 U.S.C. § 651 (statement of findings and declaration of purpose and policy). It was not—and likely could not be, under the Commerce Clause and nondelegation doctrine—intended to authorize a workplace safety administration in the deep recesses of the federal bureaucracy to make sweeping pronouncements on matters of public health affecting every member of society in the profoundest of ways. Cf. Ala. Ass’n of Realtors v. HHS, 141 S. Ct. 2485, 2488–90 (2021) (per curiam).

Next: “On the dubious assumption that the Mandate DOES pass constitutional muster—which we need not decide today—it is nonetheless fatally flawed on its own terms.” These reasons are given.

This is just plain hilarious.

The Mandate’s stated impetus—a purported “emergency” that the entire globe has now endured for nearly two years,10 and which OSHA itself spent nearly two months responding to11—is unavailing as well. And its promulgation grossly exceeds OSHA’s statutory authority.

Judges are now better scientists than our best Experts:

But the Mandate at issue here is anything but a “delicate[] exercise[]” of this “extraordinary power.” Cf. Pub. Citizen, 702 F.2d at 1155. Quite the opposite, rather than a delicately handled scalpel, the Mandate is a one-sizefits-all sledgehammer that makes hardly any attempt to account for differences in workplaces (and workers) that have more than a little bearing on workers’ varying degrees of susceptibility to the supposedly “grave danger” the Mandate purports to address.

There is a discussion of the asinine Don’t Sit Here, Sit There Fallacy our rulers love, which insists workers can only get infected at offices (only if unvaccinated) and nowhere else. This is one of the dumbest fallacies Experts concocted during the crisis they caused.

“We have to fire you because you can get infected on the job, or may infect somebody else on the job.”

But I can’t get infected elsewhere, or can’t infect anybody else elsewhere?

“Trust us. We’re Experts.”

Fact checkers agree with you. You are Experts.

Here, OSHA’s attempt to shoehorn an airborne virus that is both widely present in society (and thus not particular to any workplace) and non-life threatening to a vast majority of employees into a neighboring phrase connoting toxicity and poisonousness is yet another transparent stretch.

More exposure of the Don’t Sit Here, Sit There Fallacy:

A natural first step in enacting a lawful ETS is to show that employees covered by the ETS are in fact exposed to the dangerous substances, agents, or hazards at issue—here, COVID-19. See, e.g., Int’l Chem. Workers, 830 F.2d at 371 (noting OSHA’s stated view “that a finding of ‘grave danger’ to support an ETS be based upon exposure in actual levels found in the workplace”). As it pertains to the vast majority of private employees covered by the Mandate, however, OSHA fails to meet this threshold burden.

The Court then cogently argues that the risk, even on Biden’s terms, has not been shown to be grave, or even more than meh, given so many people already infected, vaxxed, or are young and healthy.

Next comes a stunner.

It is thus critical to note that the Mandate makes no serious attempt to explain why OSHA and the President himself were against vaccine mandates before they were for one here.

Busted.

Several prior quotes from OSHA officials saying no to mandates. Walk that back, Experts!

Two more quotes:

The Mandate is staggeringly overbroad…

OSHA itself admitted that ‘an ETS once issued could very well become ineffective or counterproductive, as it may be informed by incomplete or ultimately inaccurate information.’

Why the magic number of 99 employees?

At the same time, the Mandate is also underinclusive. The most vulnerable worker in America draws no protection from the Mandate if his company employs 99 workers or fewer. The reason why? Because, as even OSHA admits, companies of 100 or more employers will be better able to administer (and sustain) the Mandate.

Court affirms OSHA’s own actions say there is no emergency: “the Mandate flunks a cost-benefit analysis”.

The most important argument, I think, especially as we try to grasp the outlines of our expertocracy, is that OSHA delegates itself police power.

A person’s choice to remain unvaccinated and forgo regular testing is noneconomic inactivity…And to mandate that a person receive a vaccine or undergo testing falls squarely within the States’ police power.

Court points out that if this stands, the government can essentially order citizens to do anything. “Courts ‘always have rejected readings of the Commerce Clause . . . that would permit Congress to exercise a police power.'” [Ellipses original.]

Second, concerns over separation of powers principles cast doubt over the Mandate’s assertion of virtually unlimited power to control individual conduct under the guise of a workplace regulation.

Next comes the harm to businesses (which is to say people, you).

It is clear that a denial of the petitioners’ proposed stay would do them irreparable harm.

The States, too, have an interest in seeing their constitutionally reserved police power over public health policy defended from federal overreach.

States rights! Incidentally, it was hilarious to see the left invoke state rights in the Rittenhouse trial, telling us ad naseum that young Kyle “crossed state lines.” The South shall rise again!

Sweet line next:

In contrast, a stay will do OSHA no harm whatsoever.

From economic uncertainty to workplace strife, the mere = specter of the Mandate has contributed to untold economic upheaval in recent months.

Next a well deserved OHSA spanking.

But health agencies do not make housing policy, and occupational safety administrations do not make health policy. [Yet they do!]

OSHA runs afoul of the statute from which it draws its power and…violates the constitutional structure that safeguards our collective liberty.

Judge Duncan writing separately concurs and calls OSHA out for greedy sloppiness: “OHSA invokes no statute expressly authorizing the rule.”

Who knows what the simps and cucks that comprise the majority of SCOTUS will do, but this order is a double-edged serrated knife through OSHA’s heart.

It also says nothing directly about Biden’s other dictate that Fed employees and contractors will lose their jobs on December 8 (that’s the one getting my family). So that one is up in the air, too.

EXPERTOCRACY

How many times have I told you? Rulers call for a result and midwit Experts, anxious to curry favor, “discover” that result.

This just is the expertocracy. We must replace their Experts with our own.

UK POOR VAX EFFICACY

The UK puts out a weekly report on vax status, though it recently dropped reporting rates by age group because, we presume, the vax wasn’t looking too good (by “the” vax, I mean the ones authorized in the UK).

However, we can still figure them on our own, to rough approximation.

Here’s how it works for one age group. According to Table 5b in the week 45 report, 1833 vaxxed croaked within 60 days of positive coroandoom test, and 185 unvaxxed.

They don’t publish the exact number, but do have a figure (4), from which it looks like 94% or so of 70-80, and more of 80+ have had at least one shot.

One estimate of population 80+ is 3.2 million.

That makes the rate of doom “linked” deaths as 1833 / (0.94 * x) = 0.00061 for the vaxxed, and 185 / (0.06 * x) = 0.00096 for the unvaxxed, an absolute improvement of 0.00035.

Nothing to lockdown about.

But we can make it sound better by giving it in relative terms. That’s

     1 – [1833/(0.94 * x)] / [185/(0.06 * x)] = 0.37.

You will have noticed 10 times as many vaxxed as unvaxxed are dying, because of low vax efficacy and large numbers of vaxxed.

That 37% relative efficacy is no great shakes, that. Certainly nothing near the 80%+ they boast of against death (in Fig. 3).

Why the difference? Age. That Fig. 3 shows all from 16 and up. Which is cheating when we know the young suffer so little.

Let’s do 0-18. Only 1 vaxxed died and 9 unvaxxed. Now only 58% of 16-18 had a shot, about 29% 12-16, and almost none 0-12. We know from lots of other evidence these must have been sick kids, and were likely older, though they don’t tell us. So we don’t know what vax rate to use; likely closer to 58% than 29%, but that’s just a guess. Call it 50%.

How many kids 0-18? One source says x = 14.3 million.

Thus 1 / (0.5 * x) = 0.00000063 for the vaxxed dead, and 0.0000056 for the unvaxxed. An absolute savings of 0.000005. Put that on a stamp and lick it.

However, since we’re feeling frisky, we can do the relative risk reduction (same way as above) which is 89%.

Alert the propaganda machine! Let them know the vax efficacy is 89%!

Makes you sick, doesn’t it.

At any rate, there is nothing in any of this data that recommends vaxxing all, let alone mandating it. Since more kids died, it makes sense (as we have always said) to vax the sick kids and hope for the best. But it makes no sense to vax all kids and hope for a 0.000005 reduction and not expect to pay any costs in vax injuries—including death. Which is just as “rare” as doom deaths for this cohort.

MORE NUMBERS

First, as predicted and as hinted at above, “cases” and attributed deaths are up in the north, down in the south. As we predicted, which I repeat.

Being right means so little in science these days that I do not celebrate my predictive success.

Here, for the young, are the all-cause deaths by age. Please pay attention.

Not much to see, yes? Yes. All is as expected. Now let’s gander at the coronadoom attributed deaths. If these were large in any age group, we’d see a bump in that group in all cause deaths, yes? We don’t, so we don’t expect doom deaths to be large. Let’s see.

What the heck is that?

No. I’m asking. What is that?

Anybody? Anybody?

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Categories: Statistics

169 replies »

  1. “Being right means so little in science these days that I do not celebrate my predictive success”.

    If you think that’s bad, what about the fact that being wrong means so little? Yes, Dr Ferguson, I am thinking of you.

  2. Your media HATES YOUR GUTS and if you didn’t know that, stop living under that rock. Nothing surprises me.
    Except stupid people keep watching the news and reading papers.

    Surgeon Generals are taken from those who flunk kindergarten. Why does anyone listen to this flaming idiot?????

    We could have a hot civil war if the idiot voters ever wake up.

    Passing court’s determined “constitutional muster” is not a reason for not having a hot civil war. Courts lie all the time. The Supremes are masters at it. And no, courts and voting DO NOT give us justice. God gave us justice. Everyone else is a rotten faker.

    “Why the magic number of 99 employees?” Because bureaucrats live for numbers and have to have cut off points. There’s nothing rational about this—it’s probably a form of mental illness.

    OSHA always had police power. MSHA has even more. Worse, they will watch a violation committed and do nothing until it’s over, waiting to see if anyone ends up dead. That’s a bigger fine. Where were you??? Under a rock? Sure, mostly they “just” fined or shut down businesses, which is what they are doing now. They are indeed a policing organization.

    I hope the South rises again—or at least the Midwest—and tells Biden to go to hell and we are no longer part of the USA. (United Suckups of America)

    “Being right means so little in science these days that I do not celebrate my predictive success.” Yep, being right, being smart, etc. A waste of time. Stupid is what is celebrated.

    “What the heck is that?” A fantasy?????

  3. It also says nothing directly about Biden’s other dictate that Fed employees and contractors will lose their jobs on December 8 (that’s the one getting my family). So that one is up in the air, too.

    I’m good until Jan 4

  4. They are making no holds barred war on us. Thanks for the critical info flow, Briggs.

    More info:

    The overlords behind this crime against humanity/bio weapon per David Martin’s investigation. It took serious effort to locate this copy, TUCK AWAY COPIES while you can:

    https://philosophers-stone.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/image-3.png

    The article:

    https://philosophers-stone.info/2021/11/09/dr-david-martin-follow-the-patents-then-you-will-understand-covid/

    The presentation (personally I have zero patience with videos and prefer text, but it does cover a lot of important ground)

    https://rumble.com/vov60h-dr.-david-martin-follow-the-patents-then-you-will-understand-covid.html

  5. No. I’m asking. What is that?

    At its highest, the monthly death rate for kids is about 10% of the excess death rate and it’s a rather short term spike. 10% would show up on that plot, but not if the rest of excess deaths went down somewhat. Doesn’t have to be the full 10%.

  6. Excellent stuff from 5th Circuit. Needs to be nationwide though, not just one circuit (hopefully this ruling will basically be adopted by other circuits). Mere district courts routinely declared their orders to be applicable nationwide under Trump when trying to thwart him. No reason this case should be any different. Need permanent injunction nationwide against any and all coercive vax mandate measures by Biden or other fed agencies (and state’s need to step up too and take action against corporations moving forward with any mandates as well – punish them severely for their unlawful actions and protect workers). And everyone should just refuse to comply in absence of specific stay.

  7. “What the heck is that?

    No. I’m asking. What is that?

    Anybody? Anybody?“

    I’ll take a whack. The y-axis on Doom Death is a fraction of the y-axis of All Cause Deaths. ?

  8. I went back to PhD comics in the first time in a while, and saw that he had posted a comic on COVID. One of the things he put as hopeful was the huge explosion in the number of Coronavirus papers compared to previous years. Surely this means that so much will be learned about them that we will no longer have to worry about coronaviruses in the future!

    As someone who has spent over a decade making fun of the foibles of academia, he should know (and probably does know) what it really means: COVID-19 is a hot topic, so everyone is in a rush to throw in the magic words to their research to increase the chances of their grants going through. It’s the same reason that so many of the math talks that I’ve attended in previous years included a quick “and oh by the way our research could probably be used to model climate change or something” or “this research has tremendous impact on machine learning and big data” at the end, even when absolutely nothing in the talk had mentioned those topics before that point. Gotta fit in the buzzwords.

  9. It looks like Twitter all the way down judging by the titles and the photograph at the top.
    I’m with Conrad Black with regards to Boris Johnson in general terms.

    Vaccines show clear efficacy in all of the numbers available to the public.
    Even Worldometer’s*] incidence graphs regarding the UK, epidemic show a clear change in pre and post vaccinated status of the population as a whole.
    Claiming a false correlation at this stage of the game carries no weight with the vast majority of the British public regardless of politics. The only hot potato is what to do in a given situation regarding overarching rules.
    It’s clear to me and to those with a wise head on their shoulders that no further massive intervention will be either necessary or desired by the population or by government. There are, however, a lot of hysterical commentators on new outlets and on Twitter who enjoy the circus. Whatever will they find to talk about when the media and shadow media stop trouble making?

    *] Wordometer’s numbers relating to the UK mirror exactly those published by the ONS and PHE. They do not deviate in time or number as is claimed ad nauseam about the CDC. So they are reliable. As a clinician, the numbers in ITU which should follow a normal predictable pattern that relates to the other numbers, shows me that there is nothing suspicious in our numbers. All caveats are declared and all alterations are explained as and when they occur.

    Death figures are always caveated and estimates from early last year always predict that the actual number may be up to 25% over the actual numbers of deaths. So again, there’s nothing to complain about if you’re from the UK except that you don’t want tone told what to do, or something similar relating to personal freedom.
    Nearly two years on and some have still not accepted some basic facts and elements of this disease.

    Lastly, Neil Ferguson is not the UK, so no point pretending he has ore power than he actually does unless you have a need to feel powerless.
    What he actually says on record compared with what people say he says, are never the same. Nor do some either want to understand or have the capacity to understand that he is there for his modelling of R. He always makes clear that with this comes all the caveats. What never happens with media or far right wing commentary, is an admission that statistical modelling is indeed not the same as future predicting.

    It’s as if only Briggs and his type want others to be allowed to say this about the state of the art.
    As if someone needs to point is out to the ones charged with the role of modelling. What Briggs react to, and therefore, by knee jerk, the followers, is the media’s false attachment of certainty in the numbers.

    It’s not a way to be taken seriously on statistics at a high level if you can’t even concede that opponents understand such elementary features of the art/science of applied maths.
    Having heard Neil and Patrick Valance speak about modelling and prediction of. complex systems, they have never shown the kind of cavalier and ill informed or wrong headed notions which are attributed of them.

    As everybody should know, claiming success or failure over action taken or even claiming the opposite can never be proven. People are either happy with the outcome or they aren’t. You can’t prove a counterfactual. You can’t do the epidemic a different way and rerun the time frame.

    What you do have is a lot of different countries doing different things. Even then , you still don’t have apples compared with apples.

    As I see it. the group left arguing so bitterly are the usual types who would be shouting across the ward at nurse because someone moved his slippers and ‘you’re all uslelss, get me out of here’, and so on.
    That’s the arbitrary bin I prepared earlier and it’s marked
    “old disagreeable”

  10. Given the media deliberately can’t correctly report on the Rittenhouse trial, I predict that this ruling against herr Biden and the Vaxzi Party administrators will be declared… RACISS!!!!

    Also anyone else noticing a trend of organizations and officials exercising powers they never had? It’s everywhere!

    And now, more news links roundups! The best aggregates! ZeroHedge! LewRockwell! GlobalResearch! Youtube! More! For every one I post that you read and share, someone around here gets very very upset! That is the only commission that I receive!

    The ruling that halts the Vexx mandate is called Brandon vs. Biden!
    https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/11/13/second-stay-issued-against-xiden-nuremberg-forced-jab-experiments/

    Pfizer Will Allow Generic Covid Pill To Be Made And Sold Cheaply In Poor Countries – how nice!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pfizer-locks-global-distribution-its-covid-pill-promising-royalty-free-sales-95-low-and

    UK Supermarkets Lining Store Shelves With “Decoys” To Hide Supply Shortage
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/uk-supermarkets-lining-store-shelves-decoys-hide-supply-shortage

    Latvia Bans Unvaxed Politicians From Voting, Suspends Pay
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/latvia-bans-unvaxed-politicians-voting-suspends-pay

    BWAHHHAHAHA!!! It begins again! Brits Will Need 3 Jabs To Be Considered “Fully Vaccinated”: UK PM Johnson

    “On boosters, it’s very clear that getting three jabs—getting your booster—will become an important fact and it will make life easier for you in all sorts of ways, and we will have to adjust our concept of what constitutes a full vaccination to take account of that,” he said.

    “As we can see from what’s happening, the two jabs sadly do start to wane, so we’ve got to be responsible and we’ve got to reflect that fact in the way we measure what constitutes full vaccination.”

    Johnson said the government will be making plans to add the booster to the digital COVID-19 passport issued by the National Health Service.

    The prime minister urged people to get the booster jab as soon as they are eligible.

    “It would be an utter tragedy if, after everything we have been through, people who had done the right thing by getting double vaccinated ended up becoming seriously ill or even losing their lives because they allowed their immunity to wane,” he said.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/brits-will-need-3-jabs-be-considered-fully-vaccinated-uk-pm-johnson

    ^ They will soon be able to claim to the faces of the brits that the newly reclassified unvexxed are the ones who are dying! The pandemic of the unvexxed shall go on! Fak-checkas will do their due diligence!

    Meanwhile in China…
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxF3g15jZM
    https://youtu.be/aPtxvMN0NAk

    Mandatory Vaccination & The Failure Of Modern Constitutional Law
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mandatory-vaccination-failure-modern-constitutional-law

    Why Biden’s Vaccine Mandate Hasn’t Delivered The Promised Results
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/why-bidens-vaccine-mandate-hasnt-delivered-promised-results

    Conspiracy theorists continue to trump fak-checkas! Austria Orders Lockdown For The Unvaxx’d, Directs Police To Carry Out Spot-Checks
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/austria-orders-lockdown-unvaxxd-directs-police-carry-out-spot-checks

    Average censored internet users continue to trump fak-checkas! CDC Admits No Record Of Naturally Immune Transmitting COVID-19
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/cdc-admits-no-record-naturally-immune-transmitting-covid-19
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/all-sudden-cdc-has-stopped-talking-about-herd-immunity

    The Enormous Mental Health Impact Of COVID-19
    https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/enormous-mental-health-impact-covid-19

    Covid is a gift to the State excuse machine – Medicare Premiums Set To Soar; Biden Admin Blames Drug Costs & COVID
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/medicare-premiums-set-soar-biden-admin-blames-drug-costs-and-covid

    Worldwide Vaccine Failure
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/worldwide-vaccine-failure

    But was it really an “oopsie”? FDA Recalls Millions Of At-Home COVID-19 Tests Over False Positives
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fda-recalls-millions-home-covid-19-tests-over-false-positives

    I don’t think our Vaxzi tyrants or THE SCIENCE ™ even know what that means anymore…
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/its-entirely-feasible-herd-immunity-has-been-reached-current-environment

    I imagine Bells palsy also helps… Survey Says: The Pandemic Is Making You Ugly!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/survey-says-pandemic-making-you-ugly

    “Kill The Bill” – Thousands Of Australians March Against Victoria’s COVID Powers
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/kill-bill-thousands-australians-march-against-victorias-covid-powers

    Eh… you guys gonna do anything about him then? No?
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fauci-warned-about-coronaviruses-2003-didnt-act-it

    The county of tranny bathroom school rapists really doesn’t get this protect-the-children stuff…
    Loudon County Pharmacy Accidentally Vaxxed 112 Kids With Adult COVID Dose
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/virginia-pharmacy-accidentally-vaxxes-kids-adult-covid-vaccine

    Oklahoma Doctors Have Tremendous Success in Treating Nursing Home Covid Patients with Ivermectin
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/11/no_author/oklahoma-doctors-have-tremendous-success-in-treating-nursing-home-covid-patients-with-ivermectin/

    The Unvaccinated: An Inconvenient Control Group in a Sinister Social Experiment
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/11/no_author/the-unvaccinated-an-inconvenient-control-group-in-a-sinister-social-experiment/

    Video: Graphene Oxide: A Toxic Substance in the Vial of the COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine?
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/11/no_author/video-graphene-oxide-a-toxic-substance-in-the-vial-of-the-covid-19-mrna-vaccine/

    Jordan Peterson Hammers ‘Totalitarian’ Covid Rules
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/11/no_author/jordan-peterson-hammers-totalitarian-covid-rules/

    Pfizer Whistleblower Sinks Vaccine Trial Integrity
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/11/joseph-mercola/pfizer-whistleblower-sinks-vaccine-trial-integrity/
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/researcher-speaks-out-pfizer-covid-vaccine-trial-calls-crazy-mess/5761708

    The Covid-19 Pandemic Does Not Exist
    Part I
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-covid-19-pandemic-does-not-exist/5760903

    New Zealand Tells Schools to Phone the Police if Unvaccinated Staff Show Up
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/new-zealand-tells-schools-phone-police-unvaccinated-staff-show-up/5761706

    Oklahoma National Guard Goes Rogue, Rejects COVID Vaccine Mandate after Sudden Change of Command
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/oklahoma-guard-goes-rogue-rejects-covid-vaccine-mandate-after-sudden-change-command/5761702

    Here Come the Tattoo Marks – Scientists Want to Stamp Children with Invisible Ink to Prove They’ve Been Vaccinated
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/tattoo-marks-scientists-want-stamp-children-invisible-ink-prove-vaccinated/5761805

    Forced Vaccination: Austrian Sports Legend Says He Is ‘Ashamed of the Government’
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/austrian-sports-legend-says-he-ashamed-government/5761803

    Fully deathvaxxed Denmark, idol of the MSM only a month ago, has a BIG problem
    https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/11/14/fully-deathvaxxed-denmark-idol-of-the-msm-only-a-month-ago-has-a-big-problem/

    Get back in your cells Europe…
    https://moonbattery.com/europe-going-back-under-lockdown/

  11. Here’s the actual UK data on vaccine effectiveness:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032859/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_45.pdf

    Note page 22: the COVID case rate is higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated in all age groups except for 18-29 (where it is about the same) and under 18 (where the vaccinated rate is significantly lower.) In most of the populations the rate for vaccinated is about twice that for unvaccinated. Keep in mind too that the youngest populations are also the most recently vaccinated, and the general trend in vaccine data has been dramatically falling effectiveness over time.

    (The report tries to explain this away by saying that people who get vaccinated are also more “health conscious” and are probably testing all the time, but come on, do you believe for a second they would say this kind of thing if the data was tilted in other direction? Also, ask yourself this: in recent months who has been forced to get tested more often, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated? Though I also note that part of their explanation is the idea that the unvaccinated probably got COVID and thus have natural immunity, which would suggest based on the numbers that natural immunity is stronger than the vaccinated effectiveness but don’t you dare reach that conclusion!)

    To be fair to the vaccines, rates do look better on hospitalization and deaths. But it also must be kept in mind that the rates are so low for the youngest populations that the risk in absolute terms is practically nothing either way, and that the populations at higher risk also are more likely to get sick if they are vaccinated. Thus their conditional probability of dying, given they get sick might be lower, but their probability of dying generally (regardless of whether they are sick or not) is not necessarily lower.

    Another thing you’ll see if you dig around UK Coronavirus stuff is that there is no longer talk about the majority of people being hospitalized or dying being unvaccinated. That’s because the majority no longer is unvaccinated. The talk has changed to disproportionate rates ex. “while 67% of people are fully vaccinated, only 65% and not 67% of those hospitalized are vaccinated!” Not very impressive at all (incidentally those rates, which are the most recent I could find for percent of UK citizens fully vaccinated vs. those hospitalized who are fully vaccinated, suggest an effectiveness against hospitalization of about 8.5%. A 95% effectiveness with 67% of the population vaccinated should lead to about 9% of the hospitalizations being from the vaccinated.)

    It’s hard to get the exact effectiveness from real world data, since we aren’t comparing distinct groups measured in the same way, but two things are certain:

    -After a few months, the vaccines do nothing against preventing the spread and may actually make it easier to get sick.
    -The effectiveness against hospitalization ain’t anywhere close the 95% claimed.

  12. Something else to note: in the data that I used for analysis “fully vaccinated” meant “full two doses plus two weeks and potentially booster.” Those with only one shot, or those who did not have two weeks since getting the second, did not count as “fully vaccinated.” Including those numbers in the “vaccinated” pile would make the numbers better for the “unvaccinated.”

  13. “No. I’m asking. What is that?”

    May I suggest oversampling of PCR tests? One would be able to claim more COVID deaths even though the same number of deaths actually occurred. Since they don’t do any genetic sequencing or autopsies, there is no way to prove the oversampling.

    As the inventor of the PCR test said (paraphrased): “If you sample enough times, you can find anything in anyone.”

  14. “After a few months, the vaccines do nothing against preventing the spread and may actually make it easier to get sick.
    -The effectiveness against hospitalization ain’t anywhere close the 95% claimed.”
    A statement totally at odds with the truth. Yet the get out “may” is used as in all bad reporting these days.
    The numbers in this nation speak for themselves. WE are the most open of all the countries around Europe with falling infection rates and falling numbers of deaths.

    Vaccine efficacy reducers as was all but promised let alone predicted, by all, so again there’s a pretence of having uncovered some terrible truth!
    It was always going to be managed similarly to the way that flu is managed and has been for eyars without the “help” of the likes of the naysaying anti vaccine crowd and alarmists.

    The success of the vaccine roll out is perceived by the majority of the British public from BOTh political sides, We all lived through daily analysis of the numbers for months. We now all have access to the daily numbers from headlines if not directly from PHE and the ONS. The efficacy is visible and palpable. Yet again there are back seat drivers pretending to make discoveries of their own about efficacy being ‘terrible’ THEY are relying on numbers from the very source they say cannot be trusted! That alone undermines all claims made to the contrary using that same information.

    The battles for the uK are not covid at this stage, even if some want to make it so. Seems the US has bigger problems, too.

  15. As the inventor of the PCR test said (paraphrased): “If you sample enough times, you can find anything in anyone.
    That is clearly rhetoric as it’s at best and exaggeration. Also appeal to authority fallacy.
    Sampling for lizard or giraffe proteins ‘may well’ draw a blank.
    Sampling in the UK was always carefully caveated for all to take note, yet the ones who spun the information were the left wing media. So again the right wing, so called secondary media, now does the work for the the mainstream left.

    As with all medical testing and diagnostics, they are not carried out *or never should be, in the absence of all other facts and figures relevant to the individual case.
    The same is true when dealing with a population as far as is possible.
    I’ve said it before, the antagonists appear to think that medical management happens on paper or in theory, run by protocols *that’s thanks to the lawyers. The reality is always different in a well functioning system. It’s the religious belief in protocols and the purity/accuracy of medicine that makes pedants and onlookers unhappy.
    It is what it is and shouting about it is going to alter nothing.
    Claiming
    “told you so” when THEY told YOU is also a bit rich.
    That you may have known anyway, given epidemiology has some general principles? so what.
    They said it first, and on TV!

  16. GMA reported on a nursing home in Connecticutt that had 87 of the 89 staff + residents were vaccinated. The plague suddenly appeared and 8 died, 78 recovered, and 3 are still “active.” Of the 67 residents 56 recovered, 8 died, and 3 are active. They blamed the outbreak on not getting timely booster shots. Flu explanation???
    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/connecticut-nursing-home-covid-19-222848723.html

    Also, all of a sudden Flu is making a big comeback. I was told by someone working in a children’s hospital/clinic in Springfield, Massachusetts that a very large number of flu cases have suddenly appeared. Also, there is a report of many hundreds of cases of flu at the University of Michigan. The CDC plans to investigate (maybe that means changing the label to the CCP brand?). We’ve gone from no flu to a lot of flu. The propaganda on masks and the vaccine are going to be hard to explain all these goings on. Why aren’t the masks and vaccines working?
    https://record.umich.edu/articles/cdc-in-ann-arbor-to-research-flu-cases-on-campus/

  17. Joy

    You do still follow WOM?

    For UK – New Cases have been nominally flat if not rising since August
    Deaths have been nominally flat or rising since September
    Serious Cases have been steady at about 1000 for at least a month

  18. I don’t refer toWOM as much now. So wouldn’t even notice other nations and their progress.
    I say again as I said before, it’s the critical figure which is the best bellwether. of what’s happening. Clearly, assuming that the given country is actually collecting data. Brazil and India have not done so for serious critical since I started looking over a year ago. Sp knowing the nation you’re dealing with is an obvious caveat if you’re going to judge the numbers or progress.

    Every day or so, when I have heard the mainstream news I’ve heard the “cases and deaths” which are given out each afternoon. They have remained unremarkable for a long while. In particular, that we are going into the winter season and there’s no sign of uncontrolled rises in numbers. Weekends drop as always, weekdays peak around Wednesday and the numbers are in the late thirties/forty thousand re infections and plus or minus one hundred deaths per day.
    Sp, nothing to worry about.
    It’s important to realise that when a government authority like ours is giving out “news” of any kind on this matter that they have to do so through a lens which is warped by media and the social media gossips. It’s not use saying, “we’re going to be fine by Christmas” or anything of the opposite nature because ti is spun and read into at a level which becomes counterproductive.

    All of that is read as evidence of more conspiracy.
    Even GB news, which is a fabulous new news outlet, tends to over egg the pudding when it comes to reacting to government. They then in turn use reaction to gage public opinion and so on.
    Yet those who are the wisest (in m view) know that a lockdown over here would never happen. (Assuming we don’t get a break out of anthrax or something!). Nobody is up for it and everybody is managing the risk themselves. It is always the lowest who brings everybody else down and government has to speak to those who are least likely to listen but most need to hear, in order to keep people mindful of the situation.
     
    I haven’t studied, therefore the US figures.
    I always look at deaths per million and used to watch test numbers just to see us overtake India.
    Paranoia and neurosis about testing is rife but a waste of energy on part of skeptics.
     
    We all (those informed) know that the more you test the ore you will find infections but the aim is to keep the ratio of tests per population high so as to ensure that the infection can no longer take us by surprise. Sequencing is ongoing and it’s good news that no new variants have emerged that require any different action.
    Seems maybe something’s happening in Europe but who knows as yet. It’s still not going to end in a compliant lock down in England. Boris knows this. Give him the space to to his job. Je’s not the baboon that Briggs wants to pretend, Conrad black agrees with me! Who’ve thought it

  19. “After a few months, the vaccines do nothing against preventing the spread and may actually make it easier to get sick. The effectiveness against hospitalization ain’t anywhere close the 95% claimed.”

    @Joy:

    “A statement totally at odds with the truth.”

    If this is so, why then is PM Johnson announcing that the over 40 unboosted shall be classified as unvaxxed?

    Also, see this assessment using Bayesian logic (Is vaccine efficacy a statistical illusion? Spoiler alert: Yes):

    https://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2021/11/is-vaccine-efficacy-statistical-illusion.html

    These ‘so-called’ vaccines are a complete failure in every respect and this is a global phenomenon.

    Today I contacted a vaccine centre here in the UK on behalf of a 90 year old relation. She took two Oxford/AZ doses 3 months earlier. They have scheduled her for a booster – but there are no Oxford/AZ boosters, only Pfizer and Moderna – which they are gleefully administering. WTF is going on here? Complete insanity.

  20. I am very hopeful after hearing your comments regarding the OSHA stay; however, as I am in the healthcare field, I am affected by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) – Ominbus COVID-19 Health Care Staff Vaccination Interim Final Rule (Nov 5, 2021), that mandates vaccinations. I also understand that it supercedes the OSHA rule. I can find no information that this is being challenged, and my hospital which has thankfully up until now resisted vaccine mandates (small rural community hospital that is aware that it will lose staff) is now required to have them or not get CMS reimbursement. The rule is found in the federal register https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/11/05/2021-23831/medicare-and-medicaid-programs-omnibus-covid-19-health-care-staff-vaccination

  21. Buffoon!, I hope he’s not a baboon
    Years ago, just after he was mayor when I lived in London E11 he described his tactic as a buffoon as deliberate.
    It was always obvious to me. I love him for it as he irritates so many well deserving media types.
    His Sister used to be his hair advisor but they fell out over Brexit, have since made friends, I’m sure, after Nigel Farage and her went on a ‘date’ for a laugh to help smooth over the bad feelings and set a good example to the children. It’s somewhere out there on youtube no doubt. Was quite funny.

    He, Boris, explained all those years ago that he’s already made the joke before they can. It works very well and makes it all the more sweet when he is serious. Boris is transparent, from where I’m standing.
     
    Farage is watching him, so is Mark Steyn and Boris is pretending not to watch or notice! People need to remember that if they’ve noticed you can bet they’ve noticed. Why do we/I have to spell some of this stuff out to the Americans? Yet they’re happy enough not to take things at face value in other regards as and when it suits.
     
    It all goes on behind the scenes and it’s easy to think that poker face or the opposite in British politics is a true reflection of the state of affairs. They have to be cleverer than a box of monkeys? (is that a saying?) to play mainstream media but right now MSM are losing and shedding viewers faster than ever. They won’t go down without even more drama. That’s why it’s becoming shriller and madder in all things media these days. They have taken to aping GB news ever so slightly, here and there, but it won’t be enough. We need Fox news style reporting and that’s the direction of travel.
     
    Covid is something of an addiction or a habit, for many institutions, individuals and companies. They all are going to need to find a better song to sing.

  22. Robin, you’re just asserting the conclusion without understanding what’s actually being claimed. Certainly by Boris anyway. There’s a lot bound into the argument you’re presenting, too. Regarding how vaccination is to be classified. There-in lies politics.

    Bayesian or not! The vaccines worked int he Uk as they were intended and expected to do.
    As of Yesterday, and I didn’t listen to the meeting, just caught a few statements from Boris and Chris Whitty:
    The Az vaccine efficacy for those who were jabbed over six months, perhaps five, ago, the number is down to forty something. This is not some secret “uncovered” by those in the skeptical know! It has been in public view all along. There was always the expectation that yearly or seasonal injection may be a feature for several years.

    It was predicted and expected, just as influenza vaccination is a yearly event and for the same reasons.
    The main reason for the reduced efficacy is the Delta variant. So It has performed the role it was employed to do. There was a point early last year where forty percent of cases being prevented from ending in serious illness would have been heralded a big deal and good news. The vaccines were better than most experts expected.
     
    Come Spring, summer, Autumn of next year, the virus and vaccine will be changing/changed, accordingly.
    You have to wonder why [they] would be asking for boosters to be required if [they] knew that the vaccines don’t work?
    Witty also said that of the several thousand pregnant women who were admitted or are presently admitted, ninety something percent were unvaccinated. He also noted there had been deaths of unvaccinated pregnant mothers. He’s either lying or the vaccines worked.
    Chris Whitty is not a liar. You may not like his political ideas if you knew them, or some other element of his character, but there’s no reason to assume he isn’t telling the public the truth. I trust him to do so. He’s a recognisable colleague.

  23. Joy, can you point out a figure of authority – medical, governmental, or otherwise – who was prudently cautioning the populace about the inevitable diminution of vexxine efficacy? You say that regular boosters were always expected. Can you please point me in the direction of the sages who were saying this in January?

  24. There have been a lot of stories about kids receiving the wrong dose of the vexxines. These are considered low-key, local stories, so you won’t hear about them unless you are looking for them. But they are still easy to find with a search.

    Here’s what I’ve seen:

    14 wrong doses in northern California.
    98 wrong doses in Montgomery County, Maryland.
    112 wrong doses in Virginia.
    13 year old Chula vista girl receives wrong dose.
    Two children in Indiana receive the wrong dose.

    So vaccinations for young kids have barely begun and we already have at least 227 children who received the adult dose incorrectly. Given that this has happened literally all across the country, and that most parents would have no way to check the dose given to their kids, it’s safe to say that this is only a miniscule fraction of the actual number of mishaps.

    Even if you believe that the recommended dose is safe for kids, that may not be the dose that your kids get.

  25. Sorry Joy, none of them can be trusted. Even the ONS is corrupt. See this presentation by an ex-ONS statistician, who has written a formal complaint wrt the conduct of the ONS and how they are cherry picking data that effectively misinforms and misleads the population on vaccines (Title: Goodbye ONS Integrity):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoV-PxTSi0E

    Whitty is associated with organisations that have received hundreds of millions from the Gates Foundation. He is not following the scientific evidence; if he were then he would not have overruled the JCVI wrt vaccinating children.

    It’s all a huge steaming pile.

  26. KGB they ween’t just saying it in January, but prior to the vaccine actually being rolled out late last year.
    Those who work in vaccine science understand the nature of the problem and the likelihood of a requirement for boosters given the kind of vaccine being developed. It’s more akin to knowing what you’re up against than making some kind of prescient and clever prediction.
     
    As to a ‘sage’ who said so, I’d refer you to almost any discussion at a technical level on the subject as well as news interviews associated with the vaccine even before January.

    Look at select committee transcripts, there must be dozens. See the vaccine minister as was.
    If you need to have it ‘proved’ that this was always expected then it says something about the level of information to which you’ve been exposed on the matter.
    Tie and again I urged some here to listen to what was being said by those who were involved in development of vaccine and to those who understood the genetics of the virus etc.

    Are you seriously saying that you did not know this was on the cards?

    Regarding the group “sage” Neil Fergusson is not the one to refer to on vaccination.
    Nerve Tag is the group to which he now belongs or did, last time I checked.

    Regarding autonomy? I don’t know what point your’e making.
    The US is in a different place and chose a different path. Now they’re complaining.
    Biden is a reason to complain bitterly. Vaccine efficacy waining, isn’t.

    If I do find a discussion on the subject to demonstrate the attitude of those involved, I will post it but I’m really leaving it to you to look into Select committee meetings, which all have transcripts, I lately discovered.
    I have a feeling I’ve mentioned it in the past, too even before January 2021. Like so often here, I don’t search old posts for evidence since searches are logged here and I prefer my search history o be private.

  27. Even if you believe that the recommended dose is safe for kids, that may not be the dose that your kids get.
    Why would treatment, management, or vaccination for Covid 19 across a nation, be immune to problems which pre-existed, regarding standards of care?

    That’s a whole different matter.

  28. It’s all a huge steaming pile.
    So you say Robin.
    Yet we have succeeded as a nation to come through this.
    If you expect me to trust what individuals on here say who cannot even admit the smallest of truth or logic then I regret that I’m not interested in someone’s hatchet job about the ONS. A disgruntled employee? A bitter, but fair minded statistician? I don’t believe they exist!
    This isn’t about cherry picking, it’s about what is actually happening out there. If the best you have is that they’re all lying and you guys are all truthful honest brokers of Christian values, I’m afraid credibility on that went out of the window a long while ago.
     
    I keep my own council on who to trust, especially when I have some knowledge of the field itself, and understand apparently more than most of the individuals crying foul treatment or management throughout all of this.
    From ventilation to masking and on and on.
     
    The default position is whatever they’re doing, it’s wrong and evil and someone’s making too much money

  29. Joy clearly knows more about PCR than Kary Mullis! Give her the Nobel! (and no, it is not a fallacy to to appeal to a legitimate authority when that authority is trustworthy and has no potential for conflicts of interest. I’m tired of seeing that “fallacy” appealed to in such a way as to undermine all notions of any authority whatsoever). It’s a damn shame he died in August 2019, just before this all kicked-off…and frankly suspicious…he’s about the only one whose authority could have stopped the mass missuse of PCR tests for the last 2 years.

    Johnno: About 500 links at one go, some of which I’ve seen in other threads as well? Seriously? No one is clicking all those.

  30. Joy says that you should keep your kids out of hospitals, because they have long standing problems in doing things like giving people the correct vaccinations. You heard it here first.

  31. The one “authority” she does defer to is corrupt and devious UK health officials and politicians. They’re the real authorities we should all kowtow too!

    I guess Whittless still sending thrills up the leg.

  32. For example Robin, when judging the truth of someone’s word do you not offer that up against what you know from the real world?
    The media never get stories right when it comes to almost any technical subject let alone politics. Yet if you happen to have some knowledge of a filed you’re going to see where they’re going wrong and where there is likely to be falsehood or error. Also, the nature of that error and whether it is dispositive of the entire polemic at hand.
    So I hope that makes it clear where I stand on this.
     
    I’m waiting fo hear from or about, China, not nit picking over the affairs and complaints of the national data analytic centre from gossip and handed down internet, group sourced information.
     
    Some seem to come to spread and hear ‘news’, message board style. Thought I was here for the argument and to hear proper analysis. If people are so wrong about simple things, how can they be trusted on anything technical? Or where trust is a requirement, which it is, in some discussions.

  33. Rudolph H, sorry to be the one to break it to you but hospitals do err.
    Just as all organisations. The point you missed was that whatever the standard before covid, is not necessary going to change during Covid. Particularly in the early stages. Afterwards is down to whether there is a will to maintain and improve standards. I can’t speak for your hospitals. I speak what I know.
    As to “kids” being vaccinated with overdosing, well you made the claim about the US. I’ve not heard of this happening over here.

  34. Dennis, you don’t know what you’re talking about with regards to the UK.
    You’ve also shown that toucan’t accept a straight answer and still insist on your own version of events which is not straight forward. Why the need to resort to personal attack?
    Why not answer the point.
    If it’s your word against Chris Whitty do I trust his word about the efficacy? Yes.
    It is a shame that you have to set yourself up like that though.

  35. “joy clearly knows more than…”
    Dennis it is a fallacy to appeal to authority but it might not be dispositive of the original argument.

    It is true though, that his statement is rhetorical, since you can’t find giraffe DNA no matter how many times you look for it, in me, anyway, dunno about you.

     
    PCR testing is a thing with you.
    Im glad they’re still testing here, everywhere, until such time as the disease is considered endemic and stable.
    I’ve been tested twice, both occasions were because we had tests in the house and I had reason to think I ought to test myself.

    Regarding political opinions of scientists? They are as divided about things as any other group. They don’t generally say that covid isn’t killing enough people to take any action. A claim which you have made more than once. Or that masks shouldn’t be even used in ITU or theatre, or that Drs put patients of ventilators because they coughed. Another claim from here. Or perhaps the one that claims masks cause dementia or cancer?
    There’s a lot of crazy stuff that’s passed as standard commentary here without being checked. So excuse me if I take your authority’s remark as rhetorical, which it clearly is, (the one I quoted)

  36. “What the heck is that?
    No. I’m asking. What is that?
    Anybody? Anybody?”

    It’s either intentional misattribution of non-COVID to COVID to reinforce the message that vaccination is desirable for the young,

    OR

    It’s intentional misattribution of vaccine related deaths as COVID related to protect the pro-vax narrative.

    The vaccination of the young only started in the second half of this year, and so now we see the results.

  37. Joy, I gather that’s a “no”? Why don’t you have the honesty to admit that these injections were and continue to be sold as game changers that would put the CCP flu in our rear view?

  38. Why don’t you have the honesty to admit that these injections were and continue to be sold as game changers that would put the CCP flu in our rear view?
    because your statement is untrue or incomplete at best.

    Aside from the fact that they ARE game changing. What are you defining as “game changing”? You introduced a new term. Have you received a jab yourself? Are you one of the hundred million in the US who refuses? If so, that’s why your game hasn’t changed, much.
     
    It’s helped all those who have been vaccinated to know they’re not going to fall ill enough to be in hospital.

    Since you’re being uncharitable about it, you can look yourself for the multitude of times boosters have been mentioned. Call me what you will, it won’t alter anything. You can even remain in the dark if it’s what you prefer, makes no difference.
    “nobody told us”.
    Maybe you weren’t listening to the right people. I knew!

    If you stuck to being annoyed that boosters are going to be added to vaccine status, then you might have a political point. It’s still a variation of complaining that the vaccine they’ve provided isn’t good enough for your high standards.
    How’s your vaccine development?

  39. PCR testing isn’t just a “thing” to me, it is the key thing that has been keeping the fraudulent casedemic going for near 22 months now. And it already is merely and endemic “disease” that should be treated no differently than we ever treated colds or flu. That the insanity keeps going is purely political, nothing to do with public health or the existence of any disease serious enough for the vast majority of people to ever spend more than a few seconds worrying about.

    Anyone who thinks Whitty a reliable source of anything at this point is beyond reason and hope. Joy’s just a pure shill for for the Regime at this point. Despite global evidence of massive vaccine failure mounting daily, including in the UK – and constantly downplaying the egregious affront to human rights of the coercive vax mandate and “health pass” campaign worldwide, among other political and scientifc malfeasance she pretends is rare – Joy assures us all is well in the UK , the jans wonderful, and her government ministers just dandy.

    Enjoy living in cloudcuckooland. I’m off for another dose of reality – starting RFK Jr’s book on the Gates-Fauci cabal that came out today.

  40. Dennis, this country is the one ahead of the game at the moment. You’re the one left back in the changing room
    It’s too late for the US. They’re doing a Brazil on a third of the population.
    Instead of leading, they’re following at this point. All is not lost. Many will change their minds about being vaccinated, helping themselves, at least.
    As Churchill said,
    you can rely on America to do the right thing after they’ve tried everything else.

  41. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

    Here’s just one low level media discussion that was floating about mid twenty twenty regarding natural immunity time frames.
    That’s all you need to know to demonstrate the point that it was on the lips of many commenting and new vending at the time, forget January 2021.
    Select committee discussions of old are archived and I’m neither inclined to or equipped to find transcripts but the paper demonstrates my point.

  42. “…this country is the one ahead of the game at the moment…All is not lost. Many will change their minds about being vaccinated, helping themselves, at least…”

    Imagine thinking at this point that more of these worthless and dangerous jabs is the solution anywhere.

    Or thinking that the UK is somehow “ahead of the game.” For some time now the UKHSA’s weekly reports have confirmed the collapse of the vax Narrative (see OSR director Humberson’s angry open letter to HSA criticizing them for even publishing data he says might lead people to “argue the vaccines are ineffective.” Basically he wants to bury data that fails to confirm his preferred politically correct Narrative). And these deceitful scum are typical of the kind of UK public officials you hold up as shining exemplars for the rest of the world to follow? Unreal.

    No doubt the USA’s public officials aren’t any better – thats not my point at all; most public officials everywhere – with rare exception – have proven to be lying, evil, tyrannical scum. But you’ve tricked yourself into thinking not only that Covid is actually a grave global health threat in itself that justifies the kind of insane public policies that have ravaged the world for 21 months now, but also that the vaccines are wonderfully effective and safe – with side effects (short or long term) just a trifle barely worth mentioning – and further, that the UK has been at the forefront of sane, reasonable, and effective Covid policy. Quite a masterful feat of self-delusion. LMFAO. [Though I will grant that the UK’s response has not been as bad as Australia and NZ – something you may genuinely be proud of, I guess (though few countries have reached their level of Batsh*t Crazy Covid Police State tyranny)].

  43. “Australian state bans the unvaccinated from drinking alcohol while standing at weddings”

    QED, Joy, in re. my last lines in previous post! At least you have, “UK’s not as nuts as Oz!” to fall back on.

    As if the no beer at weddings thing for those who refuse to be guinea pigs wasn’t insane enough, there’s still this for those actually jabbed in Oz: “All visitors age 12 and over will still be required to wear a face mask and “check-in” to the premises for the purposes of tracking movement.”

    Remember when they said, “Just get the jab and you can have your normal life back?” Sike! – as the schoolboy pranksters used to say. And two isn’t enough either – now you need a lifetime subscription to Big Pharma’s Biannual Covid Booster ProfitMax Plan. I’m really stunned at the turn Oz has taken. I’ll never again be able to stomach watching the Australian Open every January. What a sad, vile, nauseating country it has become. Even worse than the present USA – quite an achievement.

  44. I don’t believe their latest mantra that the vax’s diminish disease severity
    repeated with such stridency from all quarters, having witnessed the
    litany of lies preceding it.

  45. Briggs
    MPathLego
    Dennis
    Et Al

    Please note that the Fifth Circuit Decision only applies to the private employer OSHA ETS issued on November 4, 2021. It does not stay the vaccine requirement under the Executive Order for federal employees or federal contractors. Nor does it stay the recent interim rule issued by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (“CMS”), or the prior OSHA ETS for Healthcare Workers issued earlier this summer.
    https://www.c-wlaw.com/journal/fifth-circuit-cements-stay-osha-vaccine-mandate-emergency-temporary-standard

    So it applies to the OSHA rule everywhere but only private employers

  46. Yes – We need stays on everything – all the other aspects of Biden’s mandates and EOs also need to be tossed, not just the attempt to suborn OSHA to be his Covid Gestapo – and stronger action by states to punish companies that comply with any lawless and unconstitutional Biden admin mandates.

    All cases on the OSHA mandate were consolidated into one yesterday, and a panel chosen by 6th circuit (all GOP nominees, chosen by lottery) will hear case now and decide whether to continue permanent injunction issued by 5th circuit last week. [Though I’m not too hopeful of their soundness – 6th circuit rejected appeal by private schools against Governor’s closure orders last December in KY, and while SCOTUS ultimately sided with the private schools – albeit in a mealy-mouthed way typical of Roberts court (technically “moot” by the time court heard because Christmas break would have closed schools anyway by that time, but with strong hint that Governor should not attempt to extend order after Jan 4 end of already scheduled holiday break) – the damage had been done and another month of school and kids’ lives destroyed by the tin-pot wannabee tyrant Governor. Hope the 6th Circuit doesn’t prove yet again to be a bunch of Regime cucks].

  47. I am one of those who appreciate links, although when fewer in number, in a particular post, they are easier to absorb. Johnno’s post today from Lifesite News, is illustrative of many things, and I forwarded it to some friends and family.

    The article, about not being allowed to drink while standing at Aussie weddings, is similar to having to wear a mask while walking to and from your restaurant table, where you may remove your mask while sitting down. This is “in your face” absurdity, and yet most people go along with it; like wearing a face diaper on an airplane, even though everyone is re-breathing the same air for hours, anyway. It’s an exercise in obedience.

    That one article about new Aussie wedding rules, illustrates how ludicrous the world has become, and how totalitarianism happens: The State creates these objectively absurd exercises in obedience, because THEY must define not just rules and laws, but reality itself; They, The State are the Alpha and Omega.

    “Midwits” and other Useful Idiots think that “Consensus” by The State does indeed define reality, (especially, when, due to censorship, only one reality is presented as ‘official doctrine’ ie The Science™), and often they simply prefer the easier, softer way, of going along to get along. It’s also human nature, to want to be part of the “in group” as Dr. Seuss illustrated so brilliantly in “The Sneetches.”

    Midwits and Useful Idiots are more than happy to participate in the control and punishment of their fellow man, if it is sanctioned by The State, or The State’s chosen “Experts”, as we saw in that experiment a few decades ago, where people were willing to electrocute another person, because the Expert (who unbeknownst to them was running the experiment) asked them to do so.

    As the world becomes a global totalitarian state, it’d useful to review history, because there is nothing new under the sun, and history contains their game plan. One of the greatest documenters of Soviet totalitarianism was Alexander Solzhentitsyn, who wrote:

    “We know they are lying.
    “They know they are lying,
    “They know that we know they are lying.
    “We know that they know that new know they are lying.
    “And still, they continue to lie.”

    That pretty well sums it up. For many, and hopefully most of us, “We are no longer accepting the things we cannot change. It is now time to change the things we cannot accept.” This begins with peaceful non-compliance.

  48. Johnby
    How I “feel” about john Campbell?
    Feel free to link a highlight which you find particularly compelling, since all the busy time he’s spent on youtube has rendered him more verbose and slow to get to his important point.

  49. “North of England”
    If you’re English, you don’t need that introduction.
    I find it totally strange that people who aren’t from here don’t know the difference.
    It’s like I hear an American accent and wonder why they don’t just give it up?
    southern English people like me think we speak properly and everybody else is a deviation from vanilla flavour, so to speak.
    Anyway, I am only vaguely familiar and don’t want to comment too much before watching a. it more or finding out
    I’ll have a look at the links

  50. 8 Dead, 80 Infected In Fully-Vaccinated Connecticut Nursing Home… But imagine how much worse it could’ve been if they weren’t vexxed!!!! Just… imagine!!!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/8-dead-80-infected-fully-vaccinated-connecticut-nursing-home

    After PolitiFail’s back-tracked Fak-chak of Rittenhouse’s right to carry arms, this hasn’t been a good week for official fak-checkas.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/reuters-ratiod-oblivion-after-fact-check-fail-defending-bill-gates
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/why-bill-gates-pivoting-existing-covid-vaccines

    With Bill Gates mentioning some new absolutely-completely-hypothetical new Small Pox outbreak, and Scientists patting themselves on the back over new small pox creation that we really really need for some reason, trust them… we might have another fun year to look forward to!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/fbicdc-launch-probe-after-questionable-vials-labeled-smallpox-found-philly-lab

    Ladies and gentlemen… the most vexxed nation on Earth! Clap for them!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/most-vaccinated-nation-earth-cancels-christmas-over-surge-cases

    Worldwide Search Trend For “Died Suddenly” Spikes To Record Highs – Experts mystified!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/worldwide-search-trend-died-suddenly-spikes-record-highs

    Austrian Police Patrol Shops, Highways Hunting For The Unvaxx’d

    In a move that was confirmed over the weekend, authorities have now imposed a lockdown that only affects the unjabbed, meaning they can only leave their homes for “essential reasons” such as food shopping.

    These measures, which are the first of their kind in the world, impact the roughly 35 per cent of Austrians who haven’t had both doses of the vaccine.

    The new rules were introduced as a result of a COVID spike and soaring ICU patients (because the vaccine works so well).

    Footage out of Austria shows uniformed police patrolling shopping malls checking people’s vaccination status against a state database.

    Another clip showed a police officer stopping a vehicle on a highway to check vaccination status.

    Those caught outside without proof of vaccination face fines of up to $1,660.

    Last week, Austria’s Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said the lockdown was designed to make the unvaccinated “suffer” as everyone else had done during earlier lockdowns.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/austrian-police-patrol-shops-highways-hunting-unvaxxd

    Biden Admin Plans ‘Imminent’ Booster Expansion; Orders 10M Courses Of ‘Pfizermectin’

    The decision comes amid data which makes clear that vaccine efficacy wanes over time, requiring a booster three-shot course in order to protect against infection and infecting others reduce the < 1% risk of death in most adults under the age of 50, while marginally reducing transmission until it wears off again in 90 days.

    Meanwhile, the Biden administration has also ordered 10 million courses of Pfizer's new Covid-19 antiviral pill – which immediately triggered the highly conflicted fact checker industrial complex at the mere mention that it's anything like Ivermectin – despite doing the exact same thing (inhibiting protease).

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/biden-admin-plans-imminent-booster-expansion-orders-10m-courses-pfizermectin

    Vaxzi Pentagon Says It Has Authority To Require Oklahoma National Guard To Follow Vaccine Mandate
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/pentagon-says-it-has-authority-require-oklahoma-national-guard-follow-vaccine-mandate

  51. Yep, Us southerners are always being called all sorts of things but it’s just like the white and blacks, scotts versus English, If you think of the white able bodied man who’s straight and eats meat, then his being a southerner is the last straw!
    My Dad’s a Northerner, but opposite side to Campbell by sounds of it.
     
    sorry, it’s verbose!
    There is a diminishing return from adding Vitamin D supplementation. It is necessary but not sufficient, is the way to look at the problem.
    If he’s suggesting a roll out of every member of the population being tested for vitamin D and given doses as a result then I find it rich that someone so skeptical of public health subscribes to such a broad brush of healthcare when it comes to considerations of personal freedom and responsibility.

    So I don’t know where people think they’re going with this but Vitamin D is readily available in every health shop and chemist. It’s not a secret, It’s routinely tested by GP’s who are doing their job! Patient ask for it, too.
     
    There’s a mistaken correlation as a cause of mortality where there are multiple factors.
     
    Obese patients for example are often Mal nourished. Something which would make Briggs’ eyes roll and may on another day be a source for an entire blog post. It’s true though. You can appreciate that people who eat the wrong things and eat too much also probably exercise less and consume those foods with less vitamins. That may in some cases include vitamin D.
    So I think it’s a red herring, although I accept that it’s an easy thing to remedy assuming normal absorption. The latter is the problem in elderly and immune compromised patients. That’s I suppose where he gets to suggesting intravenous supplementation? I didn’t go the distance with video two.

    So there’s more to think about than the fact that the two things correlate, therefore the government must act. I hate that the NHS has been turned into a branch of government.
    That kind of talk is just more of the notion that Drs and staff can’t make decisions and therefore need politicians to help! For politicians, read media and any Tom Dick or harry on social media if they can shout loud enough, perhaps glue themselves to the road.

    He seems to me to. E very assuming of what happens in surgeries and hospitals. Should care homes have better nutrition management, probably, but they also need more exercise, stimulation, care and attention, as well as a lot of other vitamins and minerals on the menu.
     
    Knowing about P values and statistics isn’t enough to make sweeping claims about what is or isn’t already being done or is or isn’t already known.
    I also noted his slipping into the accusation about cheap supplements being competition for drug companies. It’s just conjecture and paranoia.

    Sorry to mention it again but you didn’t listen the first time and nor did anybody else:
    Back before we knew what we know now, Chris Whitty was on record saying that he /we hope that some already very cheap drugs will be successful in treating covid. He listed anti palatals, rendesever, ordinary corticosteroids, immune suppression medicines and some that have been used for aids, anti virals. He particularly liked the idea that the cheaper drugs would be available around the world including in third world countries. The evidence revealed that not all the usual suspects were helpful. So claims that “experts” or “authorities” go along with the dearer alternatives is just plain false conjecture. Sure, all interested parties are going to want to have their say. I just have ore faith in certain areas of human nature and less in areas others seem to trust.
     
    Lastly, there is already an ever growing list of therapies and drugs that are being successfully deployed for Covid. People need to remember that when they’re looking at the numbers and terrifying themselves or claiming that vaccination is all we have. We have a lot of tools and things approve all the time. If you think it’s easy to get elderly people to take their medicine and take vitamins you’re talking to someone who’s spent the last couple of years trying to do just that with THREE very different elderly people who all in their own way have reasons why their body is special and or they don’t need to bother! Just like children.
    In case of my Dad, I’ve been trying to give him vitamin supplements, tasty chewy ones for ages. If he takes one he thinks he’s done well. The GP tested his fit D level and he was prescribed high doses as was I when I was very anaemic. In the hundreds of thousands of units. Over six weeks.
    So there’s a lot that goes on when talking about all these people with their poor nutrition and health!

  52. To every one else, Dr John is all in on the vaccine but is sensitive to those who don’t want it
    He has come out somewhat positively about ivermectin and seems all in here on D3
    Understands that pharma doesn’t want to touch it, but is critical of UK and US health where
    nothing has been studied about D3 in over 100 years when they figured out it helped rickets
    (and that was a low threshhold)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGug3rczx4 (10 minutes)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5g9AVqRsjo (40 minutes)

  53. third lastly,
    Anti Malarials, that was the spell guesser or perhaps the evil drug companies have written a bug to circulate so that every time someone types it the word is changed to paletals! Must be a bug, must be a conspiracy of big pharma!
    and time spent was prior to Covid, so longer than two years, more like four, re trying to push vitamins, nobody cared when I was doing the pushing!
    Now, it’s a cure for Covid!

  54. Fourth lastly,
    Johnby
    I draw your attention AGAIN to the part where Chris Whitty covered much of this early last year. All these topics are on the list of research topics. Have been since the beginning. Some just don’t trust. maybe they judge others by their own standards?
     
    The degree of ingratitude and ignorance of the science that has taken place in clinical workplaces as well as labs since last year is surprising and disappointing. It’s as if people on your “everybody else” list, John, *you’re at it again, think you’re the only ones with a hart and soul.
    I say the same thing to John Cambell. He doesn’t know what goes on or he wouldn’t be making claims about “nobody is doing anything about this”.
    It’s certainly been discussed from early last year, again, yawn, on news outlets and questions have been asked in daily briefings very early on.
    It also occurs that meta analysis is considered out of court by Briggs and Dav. It is inherently biased and merely measures the prevailing studies rather than measuring the thing which needs to be tested. So I was surprised you didn’t spot that and just dismiss his claims on that alone. It’s usually enough.
     
    If you’re going to criticise the Uk government experts it seems to me you need to know what they have said on the topic at hand.

  55. Joy

    When I last mentioned to you and SFT asked about how I was preparing for Covid w/o vaccine and I responded 4000 to 10000 U of D3, you and SFT were almost dismissive

  56. Even the great St. Fauci of Big Pharma – patron saint of regulatory capture, vaccines (up to 69 for the average kid before age 18 since he took over NIAID in 1984!, while by every objective measure real public health in the USA – the actual remit of his job – has declined precipitously during those years), gain of function, and financial conflicts of interest – admits to 6,000 IU of D3 per day (see the email dump).

    D,C, Zinc, & Quercetin should be in everyone’s cabinet (magnesium and copper as well to compliment the D and Zinc). A nightcap of Holy Basil (Tulsi) tea with some ashwaganda root powder can’t hurt either.

    Heres a good primer: https://benjaminbraddock.substack.com/p/tools-to-beat-covid

    Good prevention and treatment protocols here as well: https://c19protocols.com/

  57. John b,
    No, you misremember and still don’t understand.
    I don’t know what you discussed with Sworfish about Vit D. Even if he dismissed what you said.
    I laughed at your ‘shooting for..X level”.
    I’d have smiled at you if you were my patient, too! Well, with you.
     
    IF:
    you’re absorbing vitamins normally and eating a normal, non faddy diet, also (I don’t have you pegged as frail, but appearances can be deceptive)
    THEN:
    You’re quite okay!
    If you’re worried have your levels checked by a GP referral for a blood test, however THAT’s wangled over there.
     
    There are reasons why you may have low levels.
    I don’t see what your problem is with this at all. Maybe you’re really an old codger masquerading as an athlete, who knows…
    Remember though that Vitamin D is stored, not like the water soluble ones B’s and c, so you can over do it.
    When high doses are prescribed they are taken weekly, just as with other minerals.
     
    I think what you’re doing is anticipating a raise in the level of recommendation. They tried that with five a day!
     
    A note on that subject, it always amused me at school that the US required more vitamins as their daily “allowance” than the British people. You can imagine what kind of thing was said about fads and fashions
    It’s all guesswork and averages. Just as all medicine is an art as much as a science.
    We have a Dr Max over here who sells all sorts of vitamins and minerals in maximum doses based on the latest research. Not that I’m his sales person but he’s quite impressive. See what he says about how many units you need. Of c course being American you probably need double! Maybe we’re having half as much as we need!
    Anyway I didn’t dismiss your comment. I toyed as to whether to answer about Mr Campbell as I suspected a trap.
    I’m not familiar with him, but I’ve seen him before on the telly last year. Just not lately. So MSM’s bored with him.

  58. You don’t need to take things from a cabinet. Just eat properly.
    Men need more zinc but if you take a multivitamin you’ll be covered for all the small trace elements as the amount required are vanishingly small.
    Vitamins are the ones which tend to deplete, along with iron and calcium, outside of a rare but already diagnosed disorder.
    Careful with your vitamin A too! it’s one of the ones which can be stored and is highly toxic when people become neurotic about taking high doses of these storable substances. Same for taking Iron incorrectly.

    If you’re not failing to absorb for a medical reason, are eating a normal varied diet involving high biological value protein from milk, eggs, meat and fish, not just the odd nut or pulse! you’re going to be fine. The ones which normally deplete are the ones you’ve all heard about.
    Or you could just get the vaccine, stop posing

  59. “Or you could just get the vaccine, stop posing.”

    Still just refuses to wake up. No helping some people.

    When you fanatics for rushed and under-tested gene therapy jabs have all kicked-off from ADE and other long-term effects, I’ll be having the last laugh as I wind down the evening with a nice cup of Holy Basil tea and contemplate the suicide of a world.

  60. Joy

    If you’re going to criticise the Uk government experts it seems to me you need to know what they have said on the topic at hand. … I’m taking Dr John at face value. Dr John is someone who seems to know and mostly seems to buy into the UK government (not medical?) experts.

    However because of EXPERTOCRACY, (despite what you claim) UK drs like US drs are afraid to go off script. Dr Campbell says the EXPERTS need to quantify and provide an updated script, or the drs will continue business as usual.

    “Or you could just get the vaccine, stop posing””

    I don’t have to. You’ve told me I’m fine. I agree.
    Now tell my government that says GET THE VACCINE OR ELSE

    Tell the Germain and Austrian government to let my people go.

    Tell the NZ and OZ government to quit being wankers.

    Thanks Joy

    I can’t believe Joy said “Or you could just get the vaccine, stop posing”

    That makes me the ignorant sl*t

  61. John b()

    When I last mentioned to you and SFT asked about how I was preparing for Covid w/o vaccine and I responded 4000 to 10000 U of D3, you and SFT were almost dismissive

    I don’t remember what was said, but I’m not dismissive of Vitamin D per se – I’ve been taking it myself since nearly the beginning of the pandemic, and I’m fairly sure it’s had some positive effects on my health. Whether it’s effective against COVID-19 is another matter, but I’ve been vaccinated and will have a booster ASAP, so I’m continuing to take Vitamin D for the other health benefits.

  62. Does anyone have plans for 2076?

    “FDA Wants Until 2076 To Fully Release Pfizer Vaccine Data: Lawsuit”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fda-wants-until-2076-fully-release-pfizer-vaccine-data-lawsuit

    “The FDA has asked a federal judge to make the public wait until the year 2076 to disclose all of the data and information it relied upon to license Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine. That is not a typo. It wants 55 years to produce this information to the public. “

  63. Dennis,

    When you fanatics for rushed and under-tested gene therapy jabs have all kicked-off from ADE and other long-term effects, I’ll be having the last laugh as I wind down the evening with a nice cup of Holy Basil tea and contemplate the suicide of a world.

    On the other hand, you may end up on here:

    https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

  64. SFT

    I did say “almost” and Joy was dismissive and continues to be in her attitude about “natural” levels of D and that one doesn’t need a lot of sun. Campbell’s 40 minute video should pretty much cover it.

    BTW – Isn’t there a SORRYIGOTVAXXED? website?

    I remain unconvinced about what the VAX can do for me

  65. The bigger news from the FOIA request story is this:

    The FDA claims to have used over 329,000 pages of documents when approving the Pfizer vexxine. There is no way that anyone could have actually read and evaluated such a large number of documents, especially since many are likely dense scientific writing. Say that this happened over the course of a full year (which is longer than it really took.) That would mean reviewing over 900 pages each and every day for the entire year. That is absurd; it didn’t happen.

    More evidence in the column of “the FDA had no idea of whether the vaccines were safe or not.”

  66. “Germain” government? Austria, Australia? NZ? They’re not Germain to vitamin D, or Campbell.

    Campbell is blatantly at odds with what is true on a trivial level when it comes to what people are ‘doing about this”.
    So to me it looks like more attempts to put spanners in the works for any reason as long as it’s against the government. Nobody checks HS credentials and dives into HIS personal life or asks HIM to actually prove that nobody is ‘doing anything about htis” they take what he says because they are biased as he!

    So he can be as afforble and correct as you like about a given paper, but he’s missing the main point and making a false assumption in that particular video. If he’s so correct in whatever it is he’s trying to push, he’s missed something rather important regarding one of his first claims.
     
    You introduced the Dr, then called for back up from
    “everybody else”
    and you weren’t telling the truth when you said that you never take offence at what I say.

  67. John b,
    If you were my relative I’d rather you had the jab. As it is, I’d rather you have the jab

    You can’t tell though, apparently. You’re a wounded person.
     
    That’s not calling you ignorant, if that’s what you mean to imply. I would say you are ignoring important considerations, as is Campbell. Either it WAS and is discussed and on the agenda or it wasn’t/ isn’t. Yet that supposition/assumption underpinning his ‘lecture’, easily shown to be mistaken. So he is appealing to ignornace.
    In that sense, the proper sense of the word, it is not an insult or fault of the unknowing unless that ignorance is deliberate, as in “ignore”.
    “There’s no darkness but ignorance’
     
    I think this is a pose for so many and not for reasons of science. Just reasons of personal freedom and autonomy. Almost none want to admit this. Furthermore, they want others to join in the gang. Regarding autonomy, it is precisely the lack of autonomy in our own health service leading up to this epidemic that has laid grounds for so much in house/uk based mistrust and misinformation. It is a perfect storm with social media waiting to stir and cash in at every stage.
     
    It’s easier to pretend there’s a moral crusade here.
    You could argue the same is true for those pushing vaccination, that is true, too. It’s a false argument to use the science when the underlying objection is something completely different.
    Especially when fault found with the science are so easily shown to be erroneous and certainly not dispositive.
     
    vaccination is a health matter, not a political matter or a religious matter.
    Within the remit of health management there is already provision for people to refuse treatment as they often do, refusing to take certain actions on ANY grounds they fancy, religious ones being just one.

    I’ve not changed my position on this since the beginning but your crowd, which it is, a crowd, have so many divergent objections and angles on this which seem to carry equal validity by fellow skeptics. Or maybe you want to call yourselves Righteous brothers? Hagfish style?
     
    Auditing science, which is all that’s happening here in theory, has become nothing more than a club who should know to comply to the rules of the leader.
    Complete with prescribed language, learned from influencers over the months.
    “expertocracy”, “coronadoom” *yet you’re the ones who’re ‘feeling’ doomed!
    and on and on, vexines, “covidian”, big Pharma *straight out of the climate playbook).
    *none of them particularly original, by the way, wasn’t surprised to see them pop up. It is tabloid talk. It’s funny the first time but after a thousand or so times it starts to take on a wholeness look.

  68. Don’t take offense … true … don’t think I showed offense above

    but bad arguments and observations are remembered

    Hell – I remember all of my bad arguments and observations
    (I probably misremembered your observation about D … sorry)

    Like the crying dr, dr campbell sees all the focus on vaccines w/o concern for any thing else.

    This started out as a question on how you felt about him, and your answer was veiled and asked for a link
    If you would’ve said: “based on what I’ve seen and know about him, he’s a dodger old crank from north of england” I would’ve let it go.

    Instead you asked me for links, when you already knew how you felt

    I did not call for help – I just thought others might be interested in the link

    Dennis only responded to the “stop posing, get the vaxx”

    I’ll admit that I had a visceral reaction to THAT line … not totally offended but ingratiating

    just as you have a visceral reaction to criticism of UK government (not medical?) experts?

    Joy

    I asked the question in good faith, because I wanted to know how you felt

    “Campbell is blatantly at odds with what is true on a trivial level ”
    would have sufficed

  69. John b, no,
    Joy was dismissive and continues to be in her attitude about “natural” levels of D and that one doesn’t need a lot of sun.
    No, she isn’t, nor is her attitude wrong or even overtly sated regarding vitamin D. You brought it up.
    It’s your opinion

  70. No I don’t take your word any more about being offended.

    Here’s the TRUTH about how I “heel” about what you asked as well as the Dr:

    What a distracting question to ask in the first place? I forgave you as you enjoy talking in such terms. Perhaps you meant ‘think’. It struck as a bit of potential trouble right there. Since it was you I answered YOU in good faith. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.

     
    Why bo
    Here are my thoughts and feelings!
    Why not ask a proper question?
    I had never heard of him in my life until you asked!
    So, I looked up the name and found the person in question, if not the topic (before you linked it)

    The link supplied were exactly the one’s I’d found.
    I was completely transparent in what I said and thought. You are lying about that John.
    He stuck me as affordable and waffly. Typical YouTube who starts and then trails off..
     
    It was the middle of the night over here and I gave you the time of night to check quickly before giving up and asking you for your a link, lest I missed something. On second listening I found the three objections, one of which I never stated as it was less important but also to do with saying he was about do one thing and then doing something else.
     
    So having listened through the first and some of a couple of others, I realised that he was at odds with what has happened in the public arena regarding Vitamin D!

    The more you dig in about him the more I’m going to point out that his main thrust is untrue.
    NOtT that Vitamin D being a VITAl MINeral, is untrue or unimportant.

    If you wanted me to dismiss him because he’s waffly and a northerner, sorry to have disappointed you for being a bit more careful. My actual first response was something like,
    “Well’s Scottish with a name like that, so its not a great start”
    Decided being sensible was preferable.

    To repeat, I only recognised his voice and manner from watching him on YouTube. Couldn’t have named him except that he ‘seemed familiar’.

    As for the crying Dr?
    That’s another attempt on your part to try to make me look bad, therefore wrong.
    What is and was wrong with California’s health system or any other, prior to Covid, is irrelevant.
    That’s not the same as saying it doesn’t matter. If you can’t sort that kind of differentiation out then I’m a bit surprised.
    O defend against bad argument and since our Government is also being attacked by the Chinese, the left wing, the illegal immigrant supporters, the woke brigade, the anti British US, the EU, Briggs, fellow politicians within government, I see that covid is a great vehicle for attacking under false pretences. When it’s not YOUR country, you lose nothing when it’s government is brought down. Forgive me my allegiance to my country.

  71. Rudolph: ‘More evidence in the column of “the FDA had no idea of whether the vaccines were safe or not…”

    No surprise. Regulatory capture has, in essence, made the FDA and CDC mere PR departments of Big Pharma. The “regulators” take orders (and lots of $$$ – half of FDA’s budget comes directly from Big Pharma in the form of bribes called “user fees”) from those they are ostensibly supposed to regulate and act as the public’s watchdogs over.

  72. Rudolph Harrier,

    The FDA claims to have used over 329,000 pages of documents when approving the Pfizer vexxine […] More evidence in the column of “the FDA had no idea of whether the vaccines were safe or not.”

    A back-of-envelope calculation indicates that it would take a team of 20 people about 2 months working 8 hours a day to read. That doesn’t seem implausible at all, especially as this is what they’ve been trained to do. Maybe you’d have been happier if they’d just skimmed one pamphlet?

  73. “A back-of-envelope calculation indicates that it would take a team of 20 people about 2 months working 8 hours a day to read. That doesn’t seem implausible at all, especially as this is what they’ve been trained to do. Maybe you’d have been happier if they’d just skimmed one pamphlet?”

    Yeah nearly 300 pages per day per person of dense scientific minutiae – which all then needs to be assimilated and understood in totality by your team of isolated individuals, each reading only part, in order to create a coherent total picture (And N.B.: that also assumes no independent checking of the accuracy and scientific legitimacy of WHAT they are reading, which has been presented to them by Big Pharma with the specific purpose of presenting their new products in best light in order to speed them through approval process – c.f. regulatory capture) – sounds about right.

    Utter f-ing clown.

  74. Mr. Trombone’s “back of the envelope” calculation requires all 20 people on his team to read over 30 pages every hour on each of their work days, through the whole day. Going two minutes per page might seem reasonable, but anyone who has done reading in a technical field and actually done it diligently knows that parsing complicated argument cannot be done much faster than that. You will also know that reading long papers is mentally exhausting and you will not be able to maintain the same pace for a full 8 hours. Keep in mind too that they wouldn’t be cramming for a test; they would have to relay this information to others and so would have to be taking careful notes.

    But the most absurd part of this calculation is that it assumes that the FDA was just handed a pile of information and that they had to make sure that someone had read every page to make the decision. This is of course the height of absurdity. Having things be read is of no value unless the results are communicated or synthesized, which is going to take quite some time. And even more fundamentally, it misunderstands how such paperwork came to be in the first place. The figure of 329k+ pages is not an estimate of what the FDA read, but an estimate of all paperwork that they possess that was used to make the decision. Thus much of the paper work would have been written by the team members, and the stuff that wasn’t would have had to have been specifically requested from others. It wasn’t just thrown on their doorstop as a complete package. On top of that, reports on studies are not going to exist until the studies themselves are completed.

    So while it would be necessary for all the pages to have been read by someone to say that the FDA had a clue about what they were doing, that’s only a small fraction of the total amount of work that would have to be done. Just having 20 people read it is only barely possible, but factoring in everything else and we reach the realm of the absurd.

    The only way that this makes sense is if most of the paperwork was created by people who worked independently and made no attempt to collaborate or synthesize their work, or if much of it was requested from other companies/research groups with no intention for anyone to look at (much like how some paper writers will fill their bibliographies with books that they never once opened.) There is not enough time for any other scenario to work out.

    All this claim really does is show Mr. Trombone’s midwit nature: He starts with a conclusion, finds one idea that could be supported, and doesn’t think about whether that idea makes sense in a broader context. And, like most midwits, all his arguments end up doing is making clear how absurd his own position is.

    (A non-midwit who wanted to defend the FDA would have disputed the 329,000 page figure.)

  75. Gatesdemic 2.0 looks ready to drop. Going old school this time: Smallpoxalypse!, coming soon to a town near you.

  76. In case anyone’s wondering: Recently Gates has been banging-on about alleged bio-terror threats, esp. smallpox. Right on cue – typical “predictive programming” – some vials of smallpox (or at least labelled as such) turned up at a Merck lab today, and it also was reported that the US govt recently invested over $100 million in a relatively obscure smallpox drug.

    All pure coincidence I’m sure. Nothing more than evidence of Gates’ amazing prophetic powers as the self-appointed arbiter of global health policy.

    He and Fauci ought to be locked in a cell together with rabid hyenas.

  77. No surprise that SIGA Technologies, maker of the smallpox drug in question, is very deep state adjacent (relations with DOD, NIH, CDC, etc.) and features a quote from Gates at the top of their website (no doubt entangled with Gates Foundation as well).

  78. Over the years I’ve often wondered why people who are not Americans cannot seem to make even one statement about anything without insulting Americans. Canadians make this a regular habit, but the French and Brits do alright to. It’s unbelievable. America sunk treasure and talent into saving allied asses on a few occasions, or helped out during times of terrible tragedy, and I can hardly think of a time that has been reciprocated, but the venom for America, these ingrates just can’t spew enough. I’m sick of it, frankly. How about a little shuttie. Are other Americans in the mood for snotty snark from foreigners? We’re all in this, and in case people haven’t figured it out, your enemy of your enemy is your friend. Learn the difference.

  79. Rudolph Harrier: “The figure of 329k+ pages is not an estimate of what the FDA read, but an estimate of all paperwork that they possess that was used to make the decision. Thus much of the paper work would have been written by the team members, and the stuff that wasn’t would have had to have been specifically requested from others. It wasn’t just thrown on their doorstop as a complete package. On top of that, reports on studies are not going to exist until the studies themselves are completed.

    “So while it would be necessary for all the pages to have been read by someone to say that the FDA had a clue about what they were doing, that’s only a small fraction of the total amount of work that would have to be done. Just having 20 people read it is only barely possible, but factoring in everything else and we reach the realm of the absurd.”

    The FDA is including all supplemental material, more-or-less supporting papers, lots of pages of pretty graphs, etc.

    Discovery works better than FOI.

  80. Posts: 35
    Incept: 2021-09-03

    Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
    Quote:

    The FDA wants until 2076 to release the vaccination information?

    Technically, they’re saying they need time to release to documentation, and want to release 500 pages a month. There are over hundreds of thousands of pages though, so it’s 658 months (55 years) at 500 pages a month.

    Of course, they were able to get through all that data to OK the vaxx in a handful of weeks, but hey, that approval just put people’s health at risk, while an FOIA release might cause bad PR so it needs extra scrutiny.
    2021-11-18 16:05:41
    Permalink

  81. Folks, this is all about the vax passport. China has done it; Russia is in the process of doing it. The EU is doing it. God help Australia and Canada.

    Your medical history, your financial history, your kids’ medical history…

    How many way can I point our that this is wrong?

  82. “Eh, I’ve had my smallpox immunization, but how many younger people have not?”

    Just wait ‘til the Fauci-ized Gain-of-Function version drops!

    “Folks, this is all about the vax passport.”

    Yep, that and mandates are by far the biggest and most important issues. Really the only ones that matter. Covid itself, “cases,” and endless parsing of vax efficacy data, and whether statements by some British govt official hack in some video are truthful or evidence the vaxes “work,” or whether “boosters” are “needed” or were anticipated from the start, etc. – all are totally irrelevant to the grave consequences for everyone forever if the vax mandates and “health/vax passports” are allowed to stand. All freedom everywhere will be dead forever.

    Austria just ghettoized all the nonvaxed as part of central Europe’s most tyrannical and oppressive govt medical experimentation policy since…well, you know who (What happened to the cry, “Never again!,” eh? And what’s funny is that most of the people behind today’s global Covid policies would probably eagerly describe themselves as “anti-fa.” Fascist? Not us, of course not! LOL. They are what they do, not what they say.)

    The mandates and passports would be evil EVEN IF one could demonstrate 100% vax efficacy in prevention and transmission, and no negative side effects. Anyone who doesn’t get that, just doesn’t get anything .

  83. “Eh, I’ve had my smallpox immunization, but how many younger people have not?”

    Just wait ‘til the Fauci-ized Gain-of-Function version drops!

    “Folks, this is all about the vax passport.”

    Yep, that and mandates are by far the biggest and most important issues. Really the only ones that matter. Covid itself, “cases,” and endless parsing of vax efficacy data, and whether statements by some British govt official hack in some video are truthful or evidence the vaxes “work,” or whether “boosters” are “needed” or were anticipated from the start, etc. – all are totally irrelevant to the grave consequences for everyone forever if the vax mandates and “health/vax passports” are allowed to stand. All freedom everywhere will be dead forever.

    Austria just ghettoized all the nonvaxed as part of central Europe’s most tyrannical and oppressive govt medical experimentation policy since…well, you know who (What happened to the cry, “Never again!,” eh? And what’s funny is that most of the people behind today’s global Covid policies would probably eagerly describe themselves as “anti-fa.” Fascist? Not us, of course not! LOL. They are what they do, not what they say.)

    The mandates and passports would be evil EVEN IF one could demonstrate 100% vax efficacy in prevention and transmission, and no negative side effects. Anyone who doesn’t get that, just doesn’t get anything .

  84. “Great Narrative” is Dr. Evil’s new tagline now? Good grief. LMFAO.

    Yeah, pretty low on the production values. They really aren’t sending their best (or maybe they are – which is good news for the rest of us in the long run, though we’ll likely continue to be well and truly shafted for a while in the near term).

  85. “They really aren’t sending their best…”

    If that’s the best turnout they can get for the free food, it looks like they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel. Maybe that’s the best they got.

  86. Apparently the BBC staff think this is baffling!
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

    Good news:
    “England vaccine passport plans ditched, Sajid Javid says”

    Notice the slippery use of the word “plans” in the headline:- strummed like a guitar by the interviewer,, who works for the interests of all those who oppose the government in its strongest sense.

    Health minister and government will have also looked at a whole raft of “plans” and this is normal business in government, one would hope.

    So good news is bad news, apparently!
    Very pleased Sajid was so forthright. Good on him. They hate, that another device for moaning rights has been taken away. They also hate us to deviate from Europe!

  87. “Absolute crime against humanity that they haven’t been pulled, and were ever given EUAs in the first place.”

    Amen!

  88. Dennis,

    Yeah nearly 300 pages per day per person of dense scientific minutiae [etc]

    No, only 30 pages. (Rudolph Harrier got it right!) And if you consider that would include a lot of irrelevent information, duplication, credits, tables, citations, etc., then it really isn’t implausible at all. Not to mention that I used 20 staff as an example – for all I know, they have 200 staff. And they had a lot more than 2 months, let’s not forget.

    Utter f-ing clown.

    Says someone who just slipped on a factor-of-10 sized banana skin.

  89. “No, only 30 pages. (Rudolph Harrier got it right!) And if you consider that would include a lot of irrelevent information, duplication, credits, tables, citations…Says someone who just slipped on a factor-of-10 sized banana skin.”

    Perhaps you need to learn basic math, as well as reading comprehension:

    As to the math: You claimed 20 researchers could easily wade through 329,000 pages of dense scientific materials in 60 days. 329,000/60=5,483 pages/day. 5483/20=272.65. Ok, I rounded up to approx. 300 per day, given that it’s unlikely they’d all be working 24/7 for 60 days (there’d be some inevitable issues come up that delay unimpeded continual reading and understanding for 8-10 hours straight through a working day, absences of one or more people for various reasons, need to sleep etc.)…so we’re talking roughly 300 per day.

    As for reading comp: Rudolph’s 30 page figure at 11/18/21 6:32PM was PER HOUR. Given a normal working day of 8-10 hours (assuming true work hours – what an attorney would call “billable hours” there – not accounting for lunch, breaks, etc…), that does indeed equate to between 240 and 300 PER DAY.

    QED…I rest my case yet again. Utter clown.

  90. Per hour or per day? people?
    30 per hour time eight hours a day.
    You’ve lost Dennis. It is utterly doable.
    Also strange to focus on this approval point. Typical lawyer.
    Each authority around the world did their own audit.
    To the extent that we had Iceland and a couple of other northern European countries holding up vaccination as they posed high grade due diligence than the rest.
    Yet more posing and politicking. Italy refusing to send their share of jabs then first claimed weren’t safe! in case they needed them (and there was a shortage)/. France doing something similar. The mackerel, who jumped the shark, said all manner of nonsense about the AZ vaccination only to have to eat humble pie.
     
    In the auditing process, our country has an entire office devoted to the process of auditing and giving consideration to risks benefit in an independent way. So much so that Government here was blamed at one point for NOT doing their bidding regarding RE vaccinations for young people. So people can’t have it both ways. The JCVI is the body which makes its own separate judgement. Ultimately, if people are going to clam they don’t ‘trust’, they then do have to have the ability to assess directly, the work of the scientists. That DOES include having read, themselves! the work, if they say that others haven’t!
    Works both ways.

  91. “You’ve lost Dennis. ”

    No. Swordy claimed I was guilty of “slipp(-ing) on a factor-of-10 sized banana skin.”

    I simply proved that the point he was claiming proved him right in fact demonstrated that he can neither do basic math nor read correctly.

  92. Note page 22: the COVID case rate is higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated in all age groups except for 18-29 (where it is about the same) and under 18 (where the vaccinated rate is significantly lower.) In most of the populations the rate for vaccinated is about twice that for unvaccinated.

    No, the fact that the youngest group has most recently had the second vaccination, or in some cases the first. They still have the benefit of immunity, since the waining effect is after four or five months.
    [The older group is gradually being given boosters which will change the rates yet again. ]
    Boosters are being given at five months, as far as I know.
    My nephew had his second dose on 1st September. So he will show good immunity, if tested, until the new year and will be due for a booster in February, if he wants to have it.
    Since he loves his grandparents, I think he will. He’s six feet four or more and plays under twenty ones semi professional football, for a London team. He probably won’t take much convincing.

    So if you’re younger, (and you have no other information but the tables) you are showing ‘more protection’. When the figures are taken in their millions or hundreds of thousands, what looks like a strange reading is easily explained if you know what’s going on in the real world.
    “Statistics can’t prove cause”

    The younger group at present still has the benefit of higher immunity from recent vaccines and or natural exposure.
     
    Regarding the WOm graph.
    I can’t understand why the Uk graph doesn’t say it all about recorded deaths and timing of vaccine roll out.

  93. The proposition was from Rudolph, originally that the large doccument could be seen as:
    More evidence in the column of “the FDA had no idea of whether the vaccines were safe or not.”

    Was a futile and weak argument in the first place.
    Swordfish demonstrated that point and you picked up on the 10 X table?

    A back-of-envelope calculation indicates that it would take a team of 20 people about 2 months working 8 hours a day to read. That doesn’t seem implausible at all, especially as this is what they’ve been trained to do.

    Here’s the working:
    8 hours/day, therefore,
    40 / week X 8 weeks (2 months)
    => 320 hrs. Each unfortunate reader.
    X20 = 6400 hours reading time.

    Add more time and more readers, as if the pot needs making.
    The IPCC fourth assessment report was prefaced by a “summary for policy makers” 800 pages! Just the summary.
    Did policy makers read that?

  94. “Since he loves his grandparents, I think he will.”

    A perfect example of the unhinged emotionalistic manipulation we’ve seen all along with Covid. Get jabbed with a dangerous experimental gene therapy for something you’re not at risk for, which risks giving you heart-disease and ending your “semi-pro” (whatever that is – you either get paid to play, making you a pro; or you don’t, making you an amateur) football career, OTHERWISE YOU MUST HATE GRANDMA AND WANT TO KILL HER!

    Well, if grandma’s been jabbed, and they actually work as vaccines are supposed to, it shouldn’t matter to her if she’s around an unjabbed youngster – she’s protected (Of course, she isn’t really – but that’s the central lie of the whole Covid vax scam). And if she’s simply paranoid – that’s her problem. Tell her to seek help for brainwashing.

    Sickening, manipulative, unhinged from any sane Covid or vax risk assessment

    My mom sees her three unjabbed grandkids (at least one of whom has natural immunity from having had Covid – the others never got sick, but I wouldn’t be surprised if antibody tests showed they’ve got immunity too from having been around their sister and being exposed, without ever become symptomatic) – as well as their mom (my sister), and me all the time. She doesn’t treat us as pariahs who are nothing more than potential viral vectors, even though she got the shots herself back in February (she’s not getting the booster though – she see’s through the games being played now).

    Just get jabbed and everyone will be safe and life can go back to normal, and grandma will live! Oh? Then why does the PA at the grocery store tell both vaxed and unvaxxed people they are required to wear a mask? Because the jabs work, obviously, hurr durr! Happily, at the grocery yesterday, crowded with Thanksgiving shoppers, most people simply ignored the PA announcements and signs. Only about 20% muzzlers.

  95. This is why it isn’t worth getting into prolonged debates with midwits. They will obsess into an unrelated topic of their own design.

    No matter how many times it is explained that reviewing the safety and effectiveness of a vaccine is not merely reading a preset collection of documents, the likes of Joy and swordfish will just spout out variations of how, given enough people and enough time, a large number of pages could in theory be read.

  96. Though if you want to, you can use their impulses against them. Kind of like how people “fact checked” the claim that “Hillary Clinton washed her computers with bleach” by saying “Um, ackshually, she used a program named ‘bleachbit’ which erased all evidence of the improper confidential files from her computer.” Such an admission would never have been made normally, but the midwit can’t resist the urge to get an easy “correction” in.

    Similarly here, who would have imagined anyone making the argument that the FDA’s only job is to read vast amounts of paperwork, which they don’t even summarize or respond to (since doing so would make it take too long to read the paperwork)? But when I say that it is absurd to imagine that the FDA actually went through all the stuff, then the midwit is all too eager to throw the FDA under the bus, all to try to humiliate me by trying to claim that I was wrong about reading speeds.

  97. Rudolph, yet again you resort to insults without actually answering the point YOU raised to begin with.
    The change of topic was all your own. These posts are only on topic by accident these days. They are a miasma.
     
    No matter how many times it is explained that reviewing the safety and effectiveness of a vaccine is not merely reading a preset collection of documents, the likes of Joy and swordfish will just spout out variations of how, given enough people and enough time, a large number of pages could in theory be read.
     
    The FDA claims to have used over 329,000 pages of documents when approving the Pfizer vexxine […] More evidence in the column of “the FDA had no idea of whether the vaccines were safe or not.”
    That was your assertion.
     
    You’e been shown to be wrong and yet are claiming some insult about ‘midwits’ because you want that to be true. Or perhaps you want to distract from your own contention.

    It was your contention. How many people do you think it takes to change a lightbulb on Briggs blog?
    None because they never get past trying to tell each other which one is too cleve to be given the task.
    They also want to talk about lightbulbs in whichever sense they prefer but keep it secret until half way down the discussion. I.e. they can’t even define what one is!
     
    You were wrong about JH, too, but it never impinged.

    Wrong about my faith, wrong about whether a large number of pages is good evidence of wrongdoing.
    Wrong about insulting people who’s intellect you have no way of knowing. It is an appeal to the ignorant and those who indeed are scanty readers!
     
    Why can’t you make a straight forward point?

  98. “Since he loves his grandparents, I think he will.”

    Is response in kind, or mirroring your gang’s I might say, far worse, death wishing and ill graced commentary on those who have been vaccinated.
     
    No manipulation there. He made his own mind up. You might be interested to know his own mother refused! his father took a vaccine.
    His mother has a chronic lung disorder which will put her at high risk for serious illness.
    The talk of manipulation on your part is just projection and is totally wrong. As usual.

  99. “…your gang’s I might say, far worse, death wishing and ill graced commentary on those who have been vaccinated…The talk of manipulation on your part is just projection and is totally wrong. As usual.”

    The only people with a death wish are those intent on coercing all of humanity to submit to these useless, dangerous, and deadly jabs.

    I’m manipulating no one. It’s the fanatical Covid-vax enthusiasts who are emotionally, socially, politically, economically, medically, and scientifically manipulative, coercive, and just downright evil.

  100. Resorting to swearing?
    Phlemon, john b(), Dennis
    There are three in the above post but I didn’t read them all.
    Swearing in writing is a sign of a poor vocabulary, or extreme anger and frustration.
    But then, the leader has resorted to the same, of late.
    It is lesson 1 in bad presentation of an argument. Comedy, occasionally, but only if you want to be the ‘butt’ of the joke

  101. Rudolph Harrier,

    All this claim really does is show Mr. Trombone’s midwit nature: He starts with a conclusion, finds one idea that could be supported, and doesn’t think about whether that idea makes sense in a broader context.

    It shows the exact opposite of that. I thought 329,000 pages sounded a bit much so I did some research to work out how many pages can be read in a day. (Incidentally, I factored-in the slower reading rate to be expected with dense, technical text.) So, I didn’t start with a conclusion, I did some learning. You should try it sometime, it’s fun!

  102. The only people with a death wish are those intent on coercing all of humanity to submit to these useless, dangerous, and deadly jabs.
    Show, demonstrate, illustrate, that this is so, as simply repeating it won’t make it better for anybody, least of all your case
     
    When contrary evidence or, some very trivial points are made, with regards to unarguable fact or truth, you pick yourself up and carry on as if nothing happened…
     
    Nobody has a death wish on the entire world’s population. You’ve lost the plot Dennis.
    You’re being gas lit, but not by me.

  103. Some intense language is the least the jab fanatics and general Covid cultists deserve. And yeah, I’m f-ing angry. Everyone should be after nearly 2 years of state-imposed Covid insanity and tyranny. I’m frankly surprised more people haven’t totally blown their tops and “gone postal.”

  104. “When contrary evidence or, some very trivial points are made, with regards to unarguable fact or truth, you pick yourself up and carry on as if nothing happened…”

    There has been no solid contrary evidence to disprove anything I’ve ever said about Covid, the response to Covid, or the jabs. Quite the opposite. Every day more evidence confirms I’ve been on the right side all along. In the fullness of time, even you will come to accept this essential Truth. 🙂

  105. Here’s the working with ten hour days:

    10 hours/day, therefore,
    50 / week X 8 weeks (2 months)
    => 400 hrs. Each unfortunate reader.
    X20 = 8000 hours reading time.

    X 30 pages:
    = 240’000 pages
    I’d like my course work to be taken into consideration.

    Add ten more people!
    36’000!
    We need a team of about thirty five.
    Plus one to make the tea.
    “make tea not war”

  106. I mean, at this point the two of you are just demonstrating that my claims about your behavior are spot on.

    But if you really think it’s worthwhile to continue doing calculations on how fast hypothetical readers can go through a pile of pages, don’t let me stop you.

  107. Dennis,
    Being angry isn’t enough and it isn’t my fault either, or Swordfish’s fault. It’s your problem, nobody else’s We all have things to be angry about.
    That’s what I mean by posing, too.
    As far as anything you’ve said? No Dennis, you just change the topic when you’re shown to be wrong.
    When you make an unsubstantiated claim there’s really no response. Perhaps you think your arguments are case closed?
     
    I recall remember, people here, including me, giving you a break for a while because you declared the state of your own mental health was not good.
    You’re not alone but it’s still not going to alter what’s true and what’s not.
     
    Next time it happens and you skip along as if nothing happened I’ll remind you of what I said and you can do the same. Although I make no promises to even attend or read.

  108. Rudolph:
    But if you really think it’s worthwhile to continue doing calculations on how fast hypothetical readers can go through a pile of pages, don’t let me stop you.
    did you ever consider humour as a possibility?

  109. Dennis,

    You got that right, I did make a typo – 2 months should have been 12 months, as in Rudolph Harrier’s original comment. But the point stands. A relatively small team of researchers could read through 329,000 pages of documentation quite easily. Especially given the provisos I mentioned of skipping duplicated information, irrelevant sections, tables, indexes, citations, author’s names, title pages, etc.

  110. Rudolph:
    More evidence in the column of “the FDA had no idea of whether the vaccines were safe or not.”


    Who said that?

  111. “It’s your problem, nobody else’s We all have things to be angry about. That’s what I mean by posing, too.”

    It’s not a “problem,” it’s the actual sane response to an insane situation being imposed on humanity by tyrants and madmen.

    “Perhaps you think your arguments are case closed?”

    Yes. 🙂

  112. 329000 pages, that’s
    329 people, a thousand hours work.
    40 hour weeks!

    25 wks, so, six months.
    Yet given all the padding
    Less time, less people.
    So the claim that it’s “more evidence” in the column that shows the FDA couldn’t know, of drug safety, is shown to be not such good evidence. Which was the point of questioning Rudolph’s remark in the first place.
    Yes?
    and Dennis! don’t swear at Swordfish, you can go off people you know.
    Or you’l be held in contempt of court.

  113. Keep going with your sick 329,000 page reading speedrun strats.

    Having the researchers just skip past information is a brilliant move, but I don’t think that you’ve fully exploited how much time that can save you on your runs.

    If you add enough researchers and have them skip enough information, the sub one week run is within your grasp.

  114. Its just too easy to wind some people up. Hilarious.

    And still making new tabulations of variations of pages, weeks, man hours per page, day, week, etc., etc! LOL.

    I’m sure I’m held in contempt by some. Meh [insert shoulder shrug emoji].

  115. Dennis,
    Hilarious, you mean you got the jest?
    Somehow I doubt it? That WAS the point.
    (It takes about thirty six people)

    I’m sure I’m held in contempt by some. Meh [insert shoulder shrug emoji].
    sure

  116. If you add enough researchers and have them skip enough information, the sub one week run is within your grasp.
    How much time do we need?
    Now you’re saying they skipped salient information again, which is back to the first assertion, pretty much.
    It stays at the level of accusation.

    The numbers tell of a not insurmountable problem for individuals in that line of auditing science every day, too.
    Bang goes the laziness/incompetence claim. It has to be deliberate or nothing less.
    That’s a big claim but you know that.

  117. “Hilarious, you mean you got the jest?”

    I don’t know what supposed “jest” you’re referring too. I detected no humour (I spelled it the British way just for you!) or jests in any of your posts immediately prior – more like po-faced obsessions about “swearing, “anger,” and yet more laughably convoluted “page count” calculations.

    “Hilarious” simply referred back to the line right before before it about how easy it is to wind some people up, which was basically what I was trying to do in my previous few posts to that (Such as the one word deadpan reply to you query, “Perhaps you think your arguments are case closed?, and hence the smile emojis as well. Is “winding someone up” not a phrase known in British English? Maybe that’s the reason my line, and the intent of some of my posts earlier today, seems not to have been gone over quite right).

    “sure”

    Not sure what just “sure” is supposed to mean as a response. ”My “contempt” line was just meant to be a jokey (or at least only semi-serious) reply to your, “Or you’l (sic) be held in contempt of court,” above.

  118. Dennis,
    If you saw no humour in my comments about the numbers you weren’t reading.
    Not to say you have to laugh, but I was!
    As for poe- faced?
    No, I regard swearing at people to be rude and obnoxious.
    Obviously males think it’s okay and I don’t want to spoil people’s fun.
    It’s also not a substitute for a good point or a proof/evidence. Especially if these things matter so very much?
    When you look back for humour, perhaps look at the point you made ab out humour. Those comments were in response to the Rudolph claim of lack of time to audit. You seemed to be taking it very seriously!
     
    I think it’s just wrong on it’s face. Swordfish was more generous with his time.
    Yet even that was not conceded.
    Somewhere there’s a video with the JCVI and or MHRA, over here describing how many pages of documents they checked for one or other of the vaccines. Tomorrow…
    People really do think they’re Sherlock Holmes!

  119. I was the one doing the winding, with the numbers tables, you must have skimmed.
    “winding up” IS a British phrase. Pretty sure we started. it!
    and “sure”
    was also a dig, in jest. Which is the only way to spell it, so there.
    Swordfish is still right about plenty of time to do the thing with the thing
    Do you disagree? Do you prefer the story that they, the FDA, washed their hands of the responsibility?

  120. “You seemed to be taking it very seriously!”

    If you mean the page count stuff, no (I only briefly waded into it again this morning to defend myself against the claim that I had flubbed my math – which SFT generously conceded I had not really done based on the figures I was working with from his prior 2 month hypo).

    Sorry to swear again ;), but frankly I don’t give a d*mn about the issue as such. I’m just laughing at every hilarious and convoluted effort to keep the “page count controversy” going.

    It’s an entirely tangential issue to the main things at hand facing the world now (vax coercion/mandates, vax/health “passports”/Apartheid for the unvaxed) as more places, instead of finally waking-up from the Covid stupor the world has been in for nearly two years, descend ever further into Covid-based tyrannies.

  121. Sorry to swear again ;), but frankly I don’t give a d*mn about the issue as such. I’m just laughing at every hilarious and convoluted effort to keep the “page count controversy” going.
    Maybe we should call you Ret?
    and you DID get the joke,, you jus t thought It was at my expense?

    Used to it.

    Re:
    vax coercion/mandates, vax/health “passports”/Apartheid for the unvaxed) as more places, instead of finally waking-up from the Covid stupor the world has been in for nearly two years, descend ever further into Covid-based tyrannies.
    As long as that’s it now? I agree, with the exception of “coercion” word
    and excepting that your attitude all along has been that none of it was necessary, with which you know I disagree.
     
    As far as I’m concerned the real contentions never got going on here. It was all about conspiracy way to much and missed so much more important and useful opportunities to criticise constructively.
    I’d have handled it differently, said so last year,, but they never asked me, they never do.
     
    Yet, I was fine with much of the all in it together blanket approach. I know what the public are like and I don’t regret how I handled it. I actually have/had far more pressing things going on, so arguing with strangers is a great distraction unless they’re being obnoxious and nasty.
     
    I find the good comments from whoever very helpful. I understandSwordfish more than you because we’re from the same place and seem to share a sense of humour. He’s also explained in detail step by step why he believes what he does. So…I think that about covers it.

  122. “I was the one doing the winding.”

    Sure. Now that’s hilarious!

    As for the FDA, they have been as corrupt as every other US “public health” bureaucracy (CDC, NIH, HHS, etc.) – largely at the behest of master manipulator and NIAID chief, Fauci – in their handling of literally everything related to Covid, including the vaccines (especially the wholly fraudulent procedures and bases for the issuance of EUAs; ditto the EUA process for Fauci’s pet project – which he and Gates both have a financial stake in – the highly toxic, useless, and frankly murderous, Remdesevir; even the also corrupt and useless WHO wouldn’t stoop so low as to back the shoddy “science” behind the Fauci/Gates/Gilead Remdesevir PR), whether they read 329,000 or 329,000,000 or 3.29 trillion pages of self-justifying Big Pharma documentation.

  123. “…your attitude all along has been that none of it was necessary.”

    It wasn’t. And again, in the fullness of time – when the dust has settled and the real history of Covid has been written, and the stars fall from the sky and the moon turns red, and there is a new Heaven and a new Earth – you too will awaken to this truth. 🙂

  124. “The final summary of Pfizer’s six-month clinical trial data – the documents that Pfizer submitted to the FDA to win approval – revealed one key data point that should have killed that intervention forever. Far more people died in the vaccine group than in the placebo group during Pfizer’s clinical trials. The fact that FDA nevertheless granted Pfizer full approval [he’s referring to the Comirnaty ruse], and that the medical community embraced and prescribed this intervention for their patients, is eloquent testimony to the resilience of even the most deadly and inefficacious products, and the breathtaking power of the pharmaceutical industry and its government allies to control the narrative through captive regulators, compliant physicians, and media manipulation, and to overwhelm the fundamental common sense of much of humanity…”

    The Pfizer vaccine trial offers an object lesson on the perils of ignoring “all-cause mortality” as the governing endpoint for vaccine approval. But before we talk about “all-cause mortality,” lets take a look at the evidence that convinced FDA to grant Pfizer its license…Pfizer won approval despite the rather pathetic showing that its vaccine might prevent one Covid death in every 22,000 vaccine recipients…During the six-month trial, two people in the placebo group numbering approximately 22,000, and only one in the similarly sized vaccine group, died from Covid…Believe it or not, this data point is the source of Pfizer’s claim that the vaccine is 100 percent efficacious against death…Pfizer can technically represent that the vaccine is a 100 percent improvement over the placebo…Equally concerning, every virologist and infectious disease expert knew that the true reduction in risk of 1/22,000 – or about .01% as the BMJ reported – was far too insignificant to make the vaccine even a minor barrier against the spread of Covid…“Because the clinical trial showed that vaccines reduce absolute risk less than 1%, those vaccines can’t possibly influence epidemic curves. It’s mathematically impossible,” explains Dr. Peter McCullough…”

    “But the story gets even worse…this entire meager advantage of preventing a single Covid death in every 22,000 vaccinated individuals is entirely cancelled out by a fivefold increase in excess fatal cardiac arrests and congestive heart failures in vaccinated individuals…In other words, there was no mortality benefit to the vaccines; for every life saved from Covid, there were four excess heart attack fatalities. Twenty people died of “all-cause mortality” among the 22,000 recipients in the vaccine group, versus only fourteen in the numerically comparable placebo group. That means there were 42.8 percent more deaths in the vaccine than in the placebo group. UNDER FDA GUIDELINES, RESEARCHERS MUST ATTRIBUTE ALL INJURIES AND DEATHS AMONG THE STUDY GROUP DURING CLINICAL TRIALS TO THE INTERVENTION (the vaccine) UNLESS PROVEN OTHERWISE [my emphasis]. Under this rule, the FDA must assume people who take the vaccine have a 42.8% increased risk of dying…”

    “This six-month report was so damning that it should have closed the case against the vaccine, but captured FDA officials nevertheless gave Pfizer their approval…Pfizer and its regulatory magician, Dr. Fauci, used smoke and mirrors to divert public attention from this all-important question of all-cause mortality…That measure alone tells us whether vaccinated individuals enjoy better outcomes and longer lives than the unvaccinated…Dr. Fauci learned, at the outset of his career, to find excuses for abbreviating clinical trials of toxic medications to keep long-term mortalities invisible and to cloud overall cost/benefit assessments.”

    – all from pages 76-79 of RFK, Jr’s. excellent and essential new book, “The Real Anthony Fauci.” Should be required reading for every American (indeed, everyone worldwide, given Fraudci’s and the US’s global influence), and its thousands of footnotes used as a valuable resource tool for preparing his indictment and trial for crimes against humanity (and he’s just the start. Gates Baric, Daszak, and every Big Pharma executive and researcher involved with Covid jab promotion or development – as well as countless other politicians, “public health” bureaucrats, and assorted influential media and Big Tech (especially censorious “social media”) scum – should all be in the dock at Covid’s “Nuremberg Trials”).

  125. I thought the discussion was done and dusted?
    it seems you missed it, that’s okay? It happens to everybody.
    “sure. that’s hilarious”
    OR

    “sure”, that’s hilarious

    ?
    Big difference in meaning!
    Re FDA?
    I had my own indirect experience of knowing how the FDA operate with bias towards the US and then what they will indulge in so that they “look after” US interests.
    So much so that the US engineers had to buy products and import them separately. NASA had to go another route to acquire products and even companies set up within the US to distribute, to get around the stone wall of US innovation rules. Altering patent dates, too!
    Yet, again, the smallest points of truth don’t change because you or I don’t like the FDA.
    The FDA aren’t the only operators around the world giving approval. That’s one of the other points missed or overlooked with all the skull duggery claims and claims of crimes against humanity.
    It wasn’t. And again, in the fullness of time – when the dust has settled and the real history of Covid has been written, and the stars fall from the sky and the moon turns red, and there is a new Heaven and a new Earth – you too will awaken to this truth. ?
    You steal my lines, and you’re still wrong about nothing needing to be done. You never showed or proved it and even some of your skeptical gang members, don’t agree with that.
    They just daren’t say so!
     
    Your last comment is for someone else, or another day,
    After all, tomorrow is, another day’

  126. “I’ve been interviewing scientists for a long time in this country, and let me tell you something. There are two kinds: Those who are serfs of Anthony Fauci, and those who are genuine scientists. The serf class will refract whatever the latest Lysenkoism is from Fauci and NIAID. They are protecting their grants…The latter are a minority. They look, sound, and behave as scientists. And to varying degrees they all live in a climate of both economic and reputational persecution…Fauci’s vendetta system has many ways of crushing the natural scientific impulse – to question and to demand proof. Breathtakingly, because of Fauci’s impact since 1984 [auspicious date! – my comment], this tradition has been all but snuffed out in the U.S. ‘Everybody is afraid.’ How many times have I heard that line” – Celia Farber, quoted by RFK Jr. in “The Real Anthony Fauci,” pg 119.

    Unfortunately, the entire US public health establishment and bureaucracies (esp. including FDA and CDC, n.b. Joy and SFT), as well as most politicians and mainstream media, have long been dominated and pummeled into submission by the large gang of Fauci Serfs.

  127. ““sure. that’s hilarious”
    OR
    “sure”, that’s hilarious
    ?
    Big difference in meaning!”

    The former. What was hilarious was your claim, “I was the one doing the winding.” I just threw in the “sure” for kicks b/c of your previous comment.

    I have no idea what you are referring to by alleging that I have “stolen lines” from you. LOL.

    Keep defending the corrupt and worthless FDA, and the unnecessary and exaggerated response to Covid if you want. It’s clear you (and some others, like SFT) are unwilling to look any evidence (that is, actual science) other than that provided by the Covid Cultists and Fauci Serfs.

  128. “Your last comment is for someone else, or another day”

    The last comment – the large quote from the RFK Jr. book about the FDA vax approval process – was intended precisely for the likes of you and SFT, who have been defending the FDA on this thread as if they were actually a conscientious, science/evidence-based entity solely concerned with doing what’s best for “public health.” Believe that, and I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you!

  129. I have no idea what you are referring to by alleging that I have “stolen lines” from you. LOL.
    “Lol” is the right response, it was another light hearted comment. Just like the lines of ‘mental’ Arithmetic! which upset someone by, apparently?
    Obviously the ‘lines’ I’ve used before, but they’re not original to me either.
    Don’t read so much in as combative!

    Keep defending the corrupt and worthless FDA, and the unnecessary and exaggerated response to Covid if you want. It’s clear you (and some others, like SFT) are unwilling to look any evidence (that is, actual science) other than that provided by the Covid Cultists and Fauci Serfs.
     
    Well no, I’ve been very disappointed at the level of “audit” here.
    I don’t defend the FDA as you can see above. Nor Fauci, as I’m surprised you don’t know by now. That’s the kind of thing I mean when you won’t accept a point and to then build on, for your next response. You go back to the original claim about what I or someone thinks.
     
    Regarding covid in general, the FDA is not Covid, nor is Fauci,
    I accept that Fauci has history with the lab in wuhan, or that’s how it seems. Glad we don’t still have to defend into bXtching about him, rather than discussing the mater at hand. Yes some just want to blow off steam, but sometimes it’s nice to think clarification and progress in fact and truth can happen.

    I’m disappointed by the level of attack at those responding to the crisis compared with those who caused it or generated it in the first place. It’s all about blaming the responders and moaning that people are making too much money.
    There’s not a lot I can do about that. It’s just an observation.
    From here, it seems that the level of audit of science from the UK has been scanty and based largely on internet sourced gossip material and appeals to the private lives of some of the individuals concerned. That’s hanging on to the coat tails of the left wing media in the UK who will stop at nothing to try to remove one by one, members of the cabinet, or Conservative MP’s. There’s a war going on at the same time as Covid.

    So often, commenters here do the bidding of the left in the UK. Maybe they think it won’t blow back on them? Maybe they’re just unaware?

    I haven’t seen much in the way of good scientific audit regarding the UK or other countries:
    Much use of false dichotomy, failure to present all of the truth and a whole lot of other fallacy. Which, when pointed out, is ignored.
    One example:
    Masks causing cancer and dementia, along with a list of other diseases or disorders! Presented as an important new paper!
    I really thought that was intended to show up the skeptics for non reading and non thinking. Yet it seems, no, it was a true attempt to pull a fast one!
     
    I don’t see how one can go back from there. Couple that with the bad arguments and ignorance about medicine? The resorting to insult and the rest? It simply makes claims of serious audit a bit of a reach.
     
    Neither am I aiming all of those accusations at you, in case it wasn’t clear. It is a general point. Also the reason I don’t take some of it seriously and make flip remarks about the situations.
     
    Taking the above discussion, it’s a prime example.

    To underline the point above about building on an argument or a statement. If you say
    “I think X Y Z.”
    Your opponent should honour that. Until such time as you literally demonstrate a change of judgement…?

    Meanwhile, back at the page count? Once tried to make a comment section go over the. hundred when ti drew close, just to be ‘helpful’!.

  130. ““Lol” is the right response, it was another light hearted comment.”

    Accusing people of plagiarism (even merely of blog comments!) is not a “light-hearted comment.”

    If you say you are not defending the FDA, fine (and I know you’re not a full Fauci-ist – but still mostly in the tank for the Covid Narrative) – but your’s and SFT’s obsession with proving they did ackshually do proper due diligence in assessing Big Pharma’s submissions during the vax approval process sure gave the impression of being full-on defenders of the FDA and it’s processes.

  131. “Accusing people of plagiarism (even merely of blog comments!) is not a “light-hearted comment.”
    Well it was, lighthearted, and it isn’t plagiarism when the words are cliche.
    Still, you haven’t read enough of my comments over the yers to recognise the words.
    Perhaps that’s a blessing

    If you say you are not defending the FDA, fine (and I know you’re not a full Fauci-ist – but still mostly in the tank for the Covid Narrative) – but…
    You see what I mean?
    It doesn’t matter how you categorise me or anybody else? It’s irrelevant to the more important facts or points. Using such claims is the genetic fallacy, or some other fangled fallacy. Not to mention that in order to comment or respond, your approval of me wasn’t being sought.
     
    You know best,, Dennis, whatever floats your boat
    From here, it does sincerely seem that you are quite ‘wound up’

  132. but your’s and SFT’s obsession with proving they did ackshually do proper due diligence in assessing Big Pharma’s submissions during the vax approval process sure gave the impression of being full-on defenders of the FDA and it’s processes.
    I have no problem with the idea that the FDA had enough time to audit the paperwork. In case that wasn’t clear.
     
    Rudolph H made some weak claims about the column of evidence, as if his method of audit is anything more than internet gossip, and confirmation bias. Then he became upset, as did you, that I continued the maths game.
    FDA’s not the only one approving and none of this hangs in the balance of how long it takes someone to read papers! You still don’t get it do you? Rudolph made a claim, he was shown to be wrong after a very long demonstration, yet he then claimed that his opponent was under the impression that it all comes down to speed dreading! So he was being slippery.
     
    I’m with Swordfish’s view, yet, the pfizer vaccine was, during trials, heralded as being less effective than it finally was claimed. However, as skeptical as many were about the likely reality of the numbers in practice, [not counting antivax extremers] time has shown absolutely, that deaths and hospitalisations here, have been reduced by a combination of the vaccines we have.
    That’s the problem skeptics have. The evidence in hospitals and comparing that with other countries who have not vaccinated in good time, coupled with case numbers being high, here.
     
    The conspiracy theory has been murdered by a brutal gang of facts and figures.
    See UK deaths registered within 28 days of a +ive covid 19 test.

  133. “ You still don’t get it do you?”

    I get it precisely. You and others obsessed here with this endless page count calculation malarky, as if proves that FDA acted properly and with due diligence in giving approval to these dangerous and inefficacious jabs – based on scanty Big Pharma data which purposefully hid adverse events; see RFK quotes above about how FDA vax process works for starters – clearly don’t get a thing about very much, not just the jabs but the overall global Covid response, and care more about just repeating and justifying the Official Regime Covid Narrative.

    I get it all quite clearly – and unfortunately, you have a lot of company amongst Regime Mitläufers in today’s world.

  134. “ See UK deaths registered within 28 days of a +ive covid 19 test”

    You said yourself the other day that 88% of UK deaths “fall into the vaccinated category.”

  135. What a surprise!: about The SIGA Technologies company referenced above at 11/18/21 7:05PM with regard to “Gatesdemic 2.0”:

    “Somewhat fishily, one of the largest holders of NIAID-generated patents is SIGA Technologies. But the GAO omits all mention of SIGA in its report. SIGA’s CEO, Dr. Phillip L. Gomez, spent nine years working for Dr. Fauci at NIAID developing Dr. Fauci’s signature vaccine programs for HIV, SARS, Ebola, West Nile Virus, and Influenza, before exiting to commercial ventures. While NIAID (i.e. taxpayers – my note) clearly developed SIGA’s technology, the company reports revenue from NIAID but no royalty or commercial payments to NIH or any of its programs.” – RFK Jr., “The Real Anthony Fauci,” page 121.

    Yet another Fauci Serf Org being assigned patents by Fauci which were developed by NIAID with taxpayer money, but which are then given to Fauci cronies at nominally “private” entities whose owners and executives (and you can bet Fauci too in the form of kickbacks, royalties, or covert stakes in the companies) then pose as cutting-edge “entrepreneurs” and reap all the benefits, while many of the drugs they sling do more harm than good, while bilking users whose taxpayer dollars paid to develop them. Another key example of the latter case: Gilead received over $100 million in taxpayer funds to help develop Remdesevir; Remdesevir costs Gilead $10 to make; Gilead charges medicare and medicaid (i.e taxpayers) over $3000 per Remdesevir treatment, thus shafting American taxpayers on both the front and back ends while lining the pockets of Gilead execs and investors (like Fauci & Gates).

  136. No, Dennis, you either don’t read, or are being slippery.
    Rudolph H still hasn’t answered the two important points about vaccination way up above, and he hasn’t explained how he finds the opponent to be in the wrong for showing that HiS contention was without merit.
    LUCKILY for you, Swordfish made a typo! It doesn’t change anything about the point at hand.
    It was obvious from thebeginning, without going back to see who said what, that someone had repeated the numbers wrongly or said ‘day’ when they meant ‘hour’, ‘pages’ when they meant ‘day’ or whatever.
    Hence I started making very silly calculations, which if you HAD been reading closely, you would have spotted the fact, also you would have had to concede or respond to Rudolph’s claims.

    Instead you tried to say none of it matters anyway, which is true, however you come in at the end making Rudolph’s point about the FDA’s lack of audit.
     
    So it matters because the truth matters. At this point.
    You are the one obsessed, Dennis, I’m mystified as to why you can’t accept plain facts.
    That’s curious, that’s all, nothing to do with a need to defend FDA or any other particular group.

  137. Dennis or anybody:

    See UK deaths registered within 28 days of a +ive covid 19 test”
    You said yourself the other day that 88% of UK deaths “fall into the vaccinated category.”

    1:
    88% of [X], where X is whatever other variable you care to mention ‘falls’ into the vaccinated category. Which was the point I was illustrating.
    Where [X] = “Ate ice-cream”
     
    2:
    How many,/i> deaths are counted [as having occurred within 28 days of a +ive covid 19 test]
    Compared with last year, at the same time with similar rates of infection?
    Is the evident point I’m making about the numbers on the WOIM graph.
     
    3:
    88% could be six million or five people. Percentages are often hiding small numbers.
    Percentages often, and have for a while, been ‘creating’ confusion.
    That’s what the Venn diagram discussion was about.  
    Imagine, for argument’s sake 100% were vaccinated? There could not be
    ANY deaths that WEREn’t in the vaccine group. Do you see? There are some people who will die, vaccine or not. As I think you understand. People still contract TB despite vaccination.
     
    4:
    I also reported the pattern regarding pregnant women who have been seriously ill in hospital due to Covid 19, which is, relatively, a smaller number than the entire population. That’s a group in wherein old age is not a factor.

    “Based on academic data…from 1st Feb to1st Sep,
    1714. Pregnant women were admitted to hospital with covid. Of those 1681, which is to say 98%, had not been vaccinated…and if you go to those who are very severely ill, in intensive care,
    of 235 women admitted to ICU, 232 of them, over 89%, had not been vaccinated. These are preventable admissions to ICU, and there have been deaths. “

    [see link below]:
     
    5:
    Re WOM graph, Last year or early this: Johnby asked a question about UK figures on +ive cases.
    The fact that they looked so low and the rates of mortality were high. There was at the time some comparison about quality of care being drawn. This was answered clearly at the time by all authorities, scientist or not, and was clear to anyone following the crisis. We had little to no tests at all! Those we did have were saved for clinical settings only. That is reflected in the same graph. Nobody’s wondering about that, but when you look at the right hand end. The clear evidence which is so blatant, is being brushed over as if it doesn’t matter “because ONS! “ Or “because Neil Ferguson”
    OR worse! “Because FDA”!
     
    6:
    > 90% of the UK population has antibodies for Covid 19, according to recent sample surveys.
    Minute: 20:22…graphs/data discussed.
    Minute: 23:00… Re pregnant women
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uv82GLOw0k

  138. format correction:
    2:
    How many, deaths are counted [as having occurred within 28 days of a +ive covid 19 test]
    Compared with last year, at the same time with similar rates of infection?
    Is the evident point I’m making about the numbers on the WOIM graph.
     
    3:
    88% could be six million or five people. Percentages are often hiding small numbers.
    Percentages often, and have for a while, been ‘creating’ confusion.
    That’s what the Venn diagram discussion was about.  
    Imagine, for argument’s sake 100% were vaccinated? There could not be ANY deaths that WEREn’t in the vaccine group. Do you see? There are some people who will die, vaccine or not. As I think you understand. People still contract TB despite vaccination.

  139. How was the vaccine approved so quickly in the U.K.?
    In a bid to speed up its approval of any effective COVID-19 vaccines, Scientists from the MHRA began examining trial data in October, the agency said, in a process called a “rolling review”—where packages of data from a still ongoing trial are made available as soon as they’re ready, rather than in one release at the end of the trial.

    The linked article quoted is telling in the text, rather than the the video, of the politics around the EU political gaming, at the time of the first authorisation of the first vaccine.
    https://time.com/5917109/u-k-covid-vaccine-approved/

  140. Having now finished the RFK Jr. book several things are abundantly clear, and in a sane world with a sane government we should see dozens being frog-marched to the gallows:

    1. The entire US “public health” system is – and has been for decades long preceding Covid – riddled with corruption and conflicts of interest, and on the whole has caused more ill than good for overall “public health.” It must be thoroughly overhauled from top to bottom – getting rid of one or two people at the top is not enough.

    2. Fauci is the most evil and mendacious Dr since Mengele (the chapter on his vaccine experiments on poor “special needs” children and orphans should alone be enough to earn him jail and the gallows).

    3. As Fauci is within the US, Gates is the most evil and mendacious force in overall global “public health” policy (though Gates has plenty of ill effects in the US as well; his billions ensure his influence – and pet obsessions of vaccines and population control – over global health policy exceeds that of almost all governments, and the corruption even extends to media, many of which are also on the payroll of Gates Foundation – and Big Pharma – which of course then cannot be relied upon to do any real investigative reporting into vaccines or his activities); his obsession with dumping dangerous and poorly-tested vaccines on third world countries and using their people as guinea pigs (often with highly toxic and dangerous ingredients that would not pass muster even with the corrupted FDA & CDC), should likewise be enough to earn him considerable jail time and the gallows).

    4. Fauci’s and Gallo’s fomenting of the AIDS scare and invention of the ‘HIV causes AIDS” (in Fauci’s case he seems to still believe it is the “only” cause) claim with scant scientific evidence (but which they managed to browbeat people into accepting as dogma – even now most recite it as unquestionable truth) looks, in retrospect, like merely a dry run for the Covid “pandemic” playbook (as does the govt’s 1976 invention of the “Swine Flu” scare; hitting on a common Coronavirus as the vehicle for terrorizing the populace was the genius move – HIV/AIDS always had a much to small “at risk” population to scare enough people, though Fauci tried); just as Fauci’s efforts to push the toxic Remdesevir and a vaccine-only response to Covid mirror his obsession with pushing the toxic AZT through as the “standard of care” for HIV/AIDS (even for those who never had any symptoms of illness and only a questionable HIV+ pcr – killing many through highly toxic courses of AZT, including Arthur Ashe, who’d likely still be alive if he’d never taken AZT) and refusing to study or accept alternate treatments using re-purposed (usually out-of-patent ) drugs for AIDS symptoms mirrors his suppression of Ivermectin and HCA for Covid.

    4. Dr. Peter Duesberg is a hero in so many ways (as was Kary Mullis – RIP) – a brave and intrepid scientist actually devoted to Truth wherever it leads, even if at his own expense – who should be a model for all up-and -coming scientist, not scum like Fauci or Gallo.

    Should be require dreading for all – and if it doesn’t lead to heads rolling (both within government agencies and “private” industry/Big Pharma), there is something very, very wrong in this country and throughout the world in the field of “public health.”

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