There are various translations of Paul’s letter to the Romans, but while the words differ, the substance remains the same:
Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good.
Let love be without dissimulation. Hating that which is evil, cleaving to that which is good.
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Hate is natural and necessary, and good. Hate is a Christian virtue, properly applied. To not hate that which is evil is to, at least, lack judgement, and perhaps, in some cases, evidence of cowardice.
Consider the woke embrace hate with gusto. They hate openly and loudly. They cherish hate and celebrate it. Hate drives them. The only difficulty is that, while they are terrific haters, they hate that which is good.
To be woke is to invert. To be woke is to sleep. The woke call that which is bad, good. They call that which is improper, proper. They call that which is sickening, delightful. They call love hate, and hate love.
They hate criticism, and hate most ridicule, and will not abide either. They hate your hate. So they seek to make illegal all hate directed at them. This accounts for the creation of “hate crimes” and “hate speech”.
“Hate crimes” are usually ordinary crimes, and sometimes no crime at all, in which a woke pet is claimed to have suffered. “Hate speech” is reminding any woke person of Reality.
Richard Greenhorn reminds us of this typical “hate crime“: “A US judge has handed down a sentence of at least 15 years to a man who stole an LGBT pride flag from a church and burned it outside a strip club…He was found guilty last month of hate crime harassment…”
We saw yesterday the woke takes their Rainbow Penetration, a.k.a. the Pervert Pennant, seriously. Defacing it cannot be allowed. Though, as all know, the woke would be the first to allow, and even participate in, burning the Stars & Stripes.
Canada, not alone, is proposing to fine on-line “hate speech” with a CD$20,000 fine, which, we shall see, is a brilliant way to stifle political dissent.
That twenty grand is for the first “offence.” It goes up to fifty on the second. Even discounting the Canadian dollar, this is a substantial amount of money.
Canada’s Attorney General David Lametti assured Canadians that the proposed law would not target “simple expressions of dislike or disdain” during a virtual press conference on Wednesday that was livestreamed on YouTube.
Instead, Lametti said, the law is only designed to punish the most extreme forms of hatred that “expresses detestation or vilification of a person or group on the basis of a prohibited ground of discrimination.”
Simple expressions of dislike or disdain are, of course, exactly what would be punished, as long as that dislike or disdain is projected at any woke dogma.
Try, for instance, writing “I dislike X”, where X is any woke pet or cause that is (at that moment) newsworthy or in response to some urgent woke message, after the law is passed and see if that isn’t classed as “hate”.
The self-censorship even from the beginning will be strong, and even stronger after the government steals somebody’s money as an example to encourage the others.
For, as we all know, the Slippery Slope is not a fallacy, but a guarantee. What today is mere dislike or disdain is tomorrow detestation or vilification. If you think not, try defining for us the precise difference between disdain and detestation. What words, or images in a meme, pushes from one to the other, from allowed to illegal?
What is deemed hateful is up the rulers entirely. This is as it should be. Unless the rulers are woke, or are pretending they are to be to maintain control.
Incidentally, don’t assume anonymity will let you slide in your hate posts. If Big Tech doesn’t cut you off before the government, the government can still track you by your IP. At the least, use a VPN to make it a little more difficult to find you.
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— Hate is a Christian virtue, properly applied. —
Yes — with a qualification. There is lawful hatred, which restricts itself to behavior and refrains from pre-condemning the person. Then there is unlawful hatred, which might also be called theological hatred. This version condemns the perpetrator, consigning him to damnation regardless of whether he ever repents.
Lawful hatred allows that all of us might yet be saved, even at the very last moment of our lives. Unlawful hatred does not. A passage from C. S. Lewis’s “Perelandra” illustrates the difference in a remarkable and memorable way:
“Then he remembers—as one remembers an island of consciousness preceded and followed by long anesthesia—going forward to meet the Un-man for what seemed the thousandth time and knowing clearly that he could not fight much more. He remembers seeing the Enemy for a moment looking not like Weston but like a mandrill, and realising almost at once that this was delirium. He wavered. Then an experience that perhaps no good man can ever had in our world came over him—a torrent of perfectly unmixed and lawful hatred. The energy of hating, never before felt without some guilt, without some dim knowledge that he was failing fully to distinguish the sinner from the sin, rose into his arms and legs till he felt that they were pillars of burning blood. It was corruption itself to which will was attached only as an instrument. Ages ago it had been a Person: but the ruins of personality now survived in it only as weapons at the disposal of a furious self-exiled negation. It is perhaps difficult to understand why this filled Ransom not with horror but with a kind of joy. The joy came from finding at last what hatred was made for. As a boy with an axe rejoices on finding a tree, or a boy with a box of coloured chalks rejoices on finding a pile of perfectly white paper, so he rejoiced in the perfect congruity between his emotions and its object. Bleeding and trembling with weariness as he was, he felt that nothing was beyond his power, and when he flung himself upon the living Death, the eternal Surd in the universal mathematic, he was astonished, and yet (on a deeper level) not astonished at all, at his own strength. His arms seemed to move quicker than his thought. His hands taught him terrible things. He felt its ribs break, he heard its jaw-bone crack. The whole creature seemed to be cracking and splitting under his blows. His own pains, where it tore him, somehow failed to matter. He felt that he could so fight, so hate with a perfect hatred, for a whole year.”
Lyrical and piercing.
How prescient was George Orwell’s 1984?
Have a look at that Canadian Bill C-36. If someone fears that you might commit hate speech, they can force you before a judge who can order you to enter into a peace bond, which can include forcing you to wear a tracking bracelet, live under house arrest, provide bodily fluid samples and surrender your fire arms. “Our true north strong and free” indeed.
>>>Incidentally, don’t assume anonymity will let you slide in your hate posts. If Big Tech doesn’t cut you off before the government, the government can still track you by your IP. At the least, use a VPN to make it a little more difficult to find you.
I will gladly accept professional and financial martyrdom to the Woke wanna-be masters, if it will prevent actual martyrdom for my children (and I hope I have grandchildren).
Live not by Lies (Solzhenitsyn)
The Woke will only be defeated by our Love. I pray for their conversion, I will refute their lies. And my love for them necessarily means rebuking them for their sins while proclaiming the Good News.
Francis: I have never understood God saying you can murder, steal and torture then suddenly repent as you are dying and it’s equal to a good life like Mother Teresa lived. What kind of God treats torture and murder equal to charity and love? Where there are no consequences to a life of evil if in the end you are sorry? Repent before you die, and it’s all the same……Seems an evil kind of God to me, a throwback to the Greek and Roman gods.
Finally, a post on why hating evil is the morally correct thing to do. I am sick and tired of the “Christians don’t hate” BS. Of course they do. They hate all which is evil and God directed them to do so. They “don’t hate” is the same type of argument Satan used on Eve to get us thrown out of the Garden of Eden. We never learn, it seems.
Hate crimes worked wonders for Hitler and all other dictators, so it’s not surprising the USA is now embracing them, as we race toward complete destruction and anarchy. Remember, freedom is too expensive. Domination and slavery are easy.
The “proof Wyoming has gone to hell” article: https://k2radio.com/take-me-to-church-drag-church-brunch-redefines-meaning-of-worship-fellowship/ Of course, the Church of Christ has ZERO to do with Christ and the minister is a lesbian. Satan rules in this state, trust me. (I remind you this crap started in Wyoming with a gay student killed in a drug deal gone bad and made into a hero—the original George Floyd incident of a bad person made into a hero for a deviant cause.)
It’s more difficult with a VPN to locate someone, but by no means impossible. If they want you, they will find you. Welcome to the communist utopia 81 million people voted for.
Don’t imagine that there are no consequences for a life lived immersed in evil, Sheri. We may not know what those consequences are — but sincere repentance, which must include the willingness to do penance, will still save the sinner from an eternity in Hell.
No one knows all the facets of the Divine Plan…and that’s probably for the best.
When I say my prayers in the morning, part of my prayers are for the unity of our holy mother Church and I pray for all the Heretics satanists and perverts that surround her to repent of their sins and return to the true faith or be thrown into the fires of hell. I just recently added or be thrown into the fires of hell. I have to say it really feels right to add that.
“The Woke will only be defeated by our Love.”
Good luck with that strategy! How’s it working so far?
huerfano
July 1, 2021 at 7:38 am
C-36 part and parcel of C-10
https://rumble.com/vj19un-liberals-exploiting-tragedy-for-political-gains-spencer-fernando-on-bill-c-.html
I’ve added this to my “quotes and aphorisms” file:
You’ve joined the ranks of Chesterton, Churchill, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Reagan, Einstein, Aesop, Karl Popper, Freeman Dyson, Jerry Pournelle, and more.
The laws against blasphemy and lèse-maj·es·té on the part of the enlightenment revolutionaries who successfully overturned Throne and Altar were the means by which they ascended unto power and once that happened it was ineluctable that when those revolutionaries had enough power – which they have now – they would create laws as a rear guard action of the revolution so their power would not similarly be overthrown.
Of course, Us Catholics have been taught to do good to those who hate us and so it is all over but the staring and shouting into the progressive abyss as far as it comes to our life on earth.
The best that one can do is that every time you read about a new and absurd revolutionary rear guard action being actualised is to intensify the striving towards Salvation and Sanctification and be secure in the knowledge that the council of iniquity will be judged at the appropriate time.
O, and, obviously, consider advancing by one hour the time for cocktails.
Read the Book of Job and what that teaches us about the truth that evil men will be seen to triumph and to live comfortable lives on earth but in an instant after death be condemned to Hell.
The good that we must do for those who hate us is to pray for their metanoia before death.
Even the years lived by Methuselah, multiplied trillions of times is aught but a blink in time when it comes to eternity and we were created for two reasons
The Glory of God
Our Happiness
and fretting too much about what is happening can not add one hour to our lives and will tend to subvert our happiness.
Substitute racism for classism and what we’ve got going is Stalinism 2.0.
Same protagonists.
Pingback: Canon212 Update: This Is No Time For Obedience – The Stumbling Block
Francis: Okay, that I can kind of grasp. The idea that one could be evil and suddenly saved at the last minute without consequence was definately not working for me. All other actions in the Bible had consequences.
So in and through Jesus Christ, we forgive, have mercy, Love our enemies with God’s Love, pray for those who persecute us and who despitefully use us, bless those who curse us, do good to them who hate us, and we will have been obeying God our Father as Jesus taught us to do, and Christ’s peace will reign in our hearts.
Maybe read this article and God bless, C-Marie
https://thefederalist.com/2021/07/01/modern-day-martyr-meet-the-self-made-billionaire-who-is-sacrificing-it-all-for-god/
In Hong Kong right now, Jimmy Lai is sacrificing all — his fortune and possibly his life — for his God, his fellow man, and for freedom.
Lai is a billionaire, although he wasn’t always one. Born two years before the Communists defeated the nationalists in China’s civil war, his father fled and his mother was sent to a labor camp when he was a young child. Carrying bags for train passengers and getting by as a street vendor, he first tasted freedom when a man from British Hong Kong gave him a bar of chocolate.
Lai is a British citizen, although he wasn’t always one. Having seen a glimpse of prosperity and freedom, he chased it to the then-free British island colony, stowing away aboard a ship when he was just 12 years old and working on the floor of a clothing factory.
Lai is a Catholic, although he wasn’t always one. He met the faith through his wife, a pious woman he accompanied to church, where he heard the homilies of Cardinal Joseph Zen and in 1997 was baptized into the church by the same great man.
Today Lai is in a prison cell in Hong Kong, and the Communist dictatorship has once again seized one of his life’s works, shutting down his newspaper. But of all that has changed since he was a young boy, persecution by the communists has remained a constant. If you stand by your faith, in China there’s no way around it. “I have a soul,” he said in early 2019, and so the truth lives in him.
“No one can say we didn’t fight… Prison life is the pinnacle of my life. I am completely at peace.”
Lai’s path to success in Hong Kong began on the floor of a garment factory. He rose quickly, eventually joining management. He saved his money, invested in the stock market, and used the profits to buy a factory and start making clothing for middle-class consumers.
After the June 4, 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, where peaceful pro-democracy protesters were trapped, shrouded in darkness, and run over and gunned down by tanks, Lai sacrificed his stake in his mainland business by printing and selling pro-democracy shirts and starting a tabloid magazine that covered scandal and corruption in the party.
Undeterred by his loss, and still a very wealthy man, Lai channeled his time and fortune toward fighting their evil, enduring arrest, persecution, fire bombings, car attacks, and intimidation for it. Last week he was arrested again, and his and his company’s finances seized under the auspices of China’s new “national security law.”
Stories of his self-made riches and pro-democracy bravery dot corporate media, but unless you dig into the columns of those who’d met him, or read Christian news sources, you might miss what actually drives and fortifies him in the face of a vast and relentless enemy. You’d miss why a serial entrepreneur who has spent his life building and creating is willing to give it all, and you’d miss the truth behind why.
“The Communists,” he told Economic Strategy Institute President Clyde Berkowitz, “think they can buy and or intimidate everyone off, create their own reality, and write their own history. Effectively, they assume the role of God. They are kind of a religion or an anti-religion.”
‘They have initiation into the party as a kind of baptism. They have self-criticism as a kind of confession of sins, re-education as a kind of penance, and elevation to hero of the party as a kind of sainthood. And, of course, at least Mao [Zedong] has a kind of everlasting life as a photo smiling down on Tiananmen Square and as an embalmed corpse in a casket in the square.’
‘But the party and its members do not have souls. In fact, they are dead men walking, because the truth is not in them.’
“Life,” he told the Catholic Napa Institute in an October interview, “is more than just bread; life has a greater meaning.”
He’s right, and a lot of Christians understand this on its face, but what makes Lai different from a lot of us is while it’s easy to nod and to agree, it’s entirely another to act. We read Christ’s command to sell all of our possessions and follow him, and a lot of us give of our time and our money, some very generously, but how many give it all?
We know that the martyrs and saints suffered and for their courage on earth are saved. We might hope and pray to have their courage if ever put to the test, but until we are we never truly know if we will — so many don’t. We know that suffering has a purpose, that it sharpens and tests our characters, and that it should be offered up to God, but have you ever tried? It can be done, but it is very, very difficult to lift up your heart while your body and mind drag you back down to the temporal things torturing them.
“Here is my body, take it!” the Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen preached on Good Friday, 1979. “Here is my soul, my will, my energy, my strength, my poverty, my wealth — all that I have. It is yours, take it! Consecrate it! Offer it! Offer it to the Heavenly Father with yourself, in order that he, looking down on this great sacrifice, may see only you, his beloved Son, in whom he is well pleased. Transmute the poor bread of my life into your life; thrill the wine of my wasted life into your divine Spirit; unite my broken heart with your Heart; change my cross into a crucifix.”
“If you believe in the Lord,” Lai told the Napa Institute, “if you believe that all suffering has a reason, and the Lord is suffering with me, it will definitely define the person I am becoming so I am at peace with it.”
“I am what I am. I am what I believe. I cannot change it. And if I can’t change it, I have to accept my fate with praise.”
But how many actually do? How many American leaders, how many corporate businessmen, do just that? How many executives at Disney and Nike, the NBA and Blizzard Entertainment, in Apple and Hollywood do just that? Maybe no other alive.
Instead, how many of them bow before a thieving, lying, murderous godless slave state in exchange for access to growing markets? How many colleges and universities bow to that state’s every wish and every spy in exchange for paying full tuition into their already bloated coffers? How much do they make? “What is and should be,” Prestowitz asks, “the price of these souls?”
In Western universities and board rooms, souls are cheap. But Lai’s is not. “What separates Jimmy Lai,” a friend in corporate consulting wrote me, “from many of this era’s modern-day princes is that he deeply cares about something beyond his own money, power and status.”
“This is just living my life,” he told the BBC this spring, sitting in his mansion in northern Hong Kong. “But if I’m in jail I’m living my life meaningfully.”
“But you must fear some things,” reporter Danny Vincent asked. “For your family, for Hong Kong, for your loved ones.”
“Yes,” he replied, shuddering, his lip quivering and tears suddenly in his eyes. “You’re right. I do have fear.”
As with courage, sacrifice, and pain, it’s easy to say we have what it will take. Going to church on Sunday or giving what amounts to a rounding error to some social justice cause is fine, but is it enough? Is it remotely enough? How many of our Western elites know in their hearts that if they died in their sleep tonight, no one could say they gave it all for God?
So a lot of media accounts weren’t wrong, they just got it half right. Jimmy Lai, a man born in poverty, who became a billionaire, who became a Christian, who became a Catholic, who became a freedom fighter, might die this time, next time, or the time after that, imprisoned and penniless. But when he is weighed and measured, he will not be found wanting. And for that, when Jimmy Lai dies he will die a very wealthy man indeed.
Christopher Bedford is a senior editor at The Federalist, the vice chairman of Young Americans for Freedom, a board member at the National Journalism Center, and the author of The Art of the Donald. Follow him on Twitter.
Photo BBC/ YouTube
TO SHERI:
There are TWO wages for sin:
– Eternal
– Temporal
The priest when he gives ABSOLUTION relieves the pentinent of the ETERNAL punishment. The man or woman then will NOT go to Hell for their sin.
The man or woman MUST still pay the TEMPORAL wage for their sin.
Paying the temporal wage for sin can and does involve making restitution, doing penances, etc.
Any temporal wage NOT paid IN FULL in this life MUST be paid in the next, along with being purified of all the rest of the faults and vices that we FAILED to work on correcting in this life.
One does NOT go into the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY while still stained with sin.
One goes to Purgatory to be PURGED of remaining sin if needed first
It is MUCH easier to pay the temporal wages for our sin and clean our acts up here than in Purgatory.
The person that waits until their death bed takes a HUGE risk of ending up in Hell and ALSO buys themselves, best case, a long stint in purgatory.
That is unless they can, in their miserable state, dig up a traditionalist Catholic priest willing to rush to the aid on a non-parishioner to give that person that intentionally waited the Apostolic blessing as part of TRADITIONAL last rites. Novus Ordo last rites eliminated it – so the Novus Ordo priest is USELESS. What the apostolic blessing as part of traditional last rites grants is a plenary indulgence which dips into the MERIT of the CHURCH, i.e. the accumulated merit of the martyrs and saints to PAY the wages of sin the dying person owes.
Sheri; Jul-01 3:33PM
The evil man who confesses and repents on his death bed still has to undergo purgation. And, most likely his despicable lifestyle has left no one in heaven or on earth to pray for his immortal soul, therefore his cleansing fire might be worse than mine.
I agree with Staff Sgt Briggs and Francis Porretto and propose this semantic difference.
For Lawful Hate we will now use Despise.
For Unlawful Hate we continue to use Hate.
When I despise someone; I condemn nearly all their thoughts and actions and I dislike them so fervently that I can barely be in the same room with them, but I continue to hold out hope for their redemption.
When I hate someone; I want them to die a slow painful death and for them to be condemned to Hell for eternity.
>>>From his Christmas sermon 1957; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Why should we love our enemies? Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction. … You look at every man, and you love him because you know God loves him. And he might be the worst person you’ve ever seen. And this is what Jesus means, I think, in this very passage when he says, “Love your enemy.” And it’s significant that he does not say, “Like your enemy.” Like is a sentimental something, an affectionate something. There are a lot of people that I find it difficult to like. I don’t like what they do to me. I don’t like what they say about me and other people. I don’t like their attitudes. I don’t like some of the things they’re doing. I just don’t like them. But Jesus says love them. And love is greater than like. Love is understanding, redemptive goodwill for all men, so that you love everybody, because God loves them.
= = = = = =
Similarly:
Righteous anger is good, Wrath is evil
Conjugual desire is good, Lust is sinful
Profit motive is good, Avarice is sinful
Appetite is good, Gluttony is sinful
= = = = = =
Kent Clizbe Jul 1 8:41AM
>>> Good luck with that strategy it working so far?
It was working fantastic until the wrath and hate of a tiny tiny minority overwhelmed the based.
It doesn’t matter what actually happened in DC on Jan-06-2021, it has become an unmitigated disaster for the based.
Prime example:
The 2021 March for Life (Jan-29-2021) was a cancelled due to security concerns following the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol and the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.
Two feet of snow didn’t stop us in 2016.
Temps in the low teens never stopped us.
The mainstream media and Nathan Phillips tried to defame us in 2019, but we marched with Love in 2020.
But, cosplay Q-Anon losers who proclaim an globalist/elitist pedophile conspiracy and “Western Chauvinists” that hate Christianity and embrace Norse legends did.
What happened to “hate the sin, love the sinner”? The problem I see is that there’s really no difference between your side and theirs: Wokeism (which has even been described as a religion) is based on evidence-free post-modernist nonsense, Christianity is based on evidence-free ancient biblical nonsense. It’s all nonsense! Furthermore, your hatred of them causes you to push as hard as possible to the Right to try and compensate; meanwhile, their hatred of you causes them to push as hard as possible to the Left. The result is both the Capitol riots *and* ‘defund the police’ riots.
Hate is a human emotion
Crimes are physical actions
Hate speech laws are ugly, embellishments on law which already handles crimes of a given action.
Motives speak about likelihood of recidivism or repeat offending of that kind of action, nothing more.
The new cries for hate speech laws and the controlling of the thoughts and beliefs of others is little more than a desperate, political power clawing, born of fear and taking advantage of ignorance and hopelessness in people, to achieve legislation.
Swordfish is right, by my estimation as to how this situation is exacerbated.
Furthermore,
If your religious belief leads you to hate anyone it Is a false belief. (In the Anglican tradition).
God loves everybody so what is the excuse for it? Everybody knows it exists just as pride exists.
People need God’s help, not the other way round.
Hate speech laws will be a flash in the pan but freedom of speech is under attack in the West and has been for a while. It is the mainstay which underpins all modern parliaments. Whoever’s in charge, or has great influence/sway with the masses, eventually ends up trying to control thoughts and words. It was the same with the inquisitors; same with Islamists, communism, scientologists and now with the liberal elitist politically correct crowd.
The battle’sneverover, always in flux.
Bad luck for those who are born in a wrong place or time.
Swordtromboney: “What happened to “hate the sin, love the sinner”?
If you love your child, you will punish them and beat their ass to the extent that their sin/transgression/crime deserves. This is intended to set them straight (so too for the lgbs), as people can change thanks to one or two ways. The first being reasoning with them. And if that fails, then through fear of punishment.
God still loves every sinner that is burning eternally in Hell. The flames are His love. In Heaven it is warmth. In Purgatory it is purifying pain. In Hell, it is everlasting suffering that is hated by its denizens.
This is also why we punish sinners on Earth even putting them to death. As that way they will have paid for their crime while still alive and not have to suffer it far more realistically in the next world.
So if you actually love them, you will cease being a pussy and confront them and stop them.
You are right to notice that there is a similarity in the way the woke religion works and the way the True Religion works. The woke one is an inversion and a demonic copycat ape of the True Religion that it is seeking to overthrow and replace. That is how the anti-Christ and the false prophet and the religion of the beast will come to reign. So do be a dear and try to pay attention.
Joy (lol): “If your religious belief leads you to hate anyone it Is a false belief. (In the Anglican tradition).
God loves everybody so what is the excuse for it?”
1. Why the F are you listening to the catastrophic useless failure that is Anglicanism, started by an impotent serial adulterer?
2. Why does the ‘God of luv’ (not the be confused with Love) send people to He’ll, which everyone knows exists just as sure as pride does, darling?
Please run the math through your personal theology and get back to us.
It seems to b e you, Johnno, who is not giving this enough deep thought but are merely repeating rhetorical tropes which can be found strewn across the internet.
Also, note the use of the word “us” in your comment. Come the day of judgement, there is no “us”.
That depiction of the Anglican Church is an action against holiness and charity.
Ask YOS about what Catholics say about that.
Being so angry about love is ironic but not unique
God loves everybody and calls us to do the same.
There are plenty of Catholics who know this teaching but you will not find them correcting your mistakes. This is another way in. Which it is possible to know someone who understands the Christian faith as opposed to simply displaying bias and parroting, at opportune moments.
The truth of the matter is that God, to those people who believe in him, IS love. It says so in the bible. He is ultimate truth, beauty and goodness. There’s no room for anger with God.
Those kind of negative, spiteful, angry, bitter, sour, proud, nasty, vindictive, sadistic, macabre, selfish, hateful Golem-like traits, are unChristian.
People don’t need God’s help to stew or display what comes so naturally to people in varying degrees.
FYI,
The Anglican Church was founded on the latin church with all its traditions.
There is a hidden Church of Christ which has nothing to do with the buildings or even the rules of so called excommunication, which is a social device. Nobody is beyond God’s grace.
The rule exists in human hearts and it is based around a knowledge of the presence of God.
Churches serve those individuals and bring people together for fellowship and worship.
I just read the first couple of lines of your response to Swordfish prior to posting this.
Good luck!
I hate THAT which is evil but it doesn’t do to dwell on that which is evil.
I also makes me the same as everybody else.j. It is natural to be repelled by what is evil.
It also says in the sermon on the mount:
“do not resist evil”
That requires some translation and interpretation, too. No use being facile about things.
Maybe it’s another translation phenomenon or maybe it is simply a call not to fight but to be drawn towards the opposite.
Joyless the Anglican one –
First of all. My rhetorical internet trophes are correct. Lets establish that. Versus whatever it is you think you are doing, imagining you are being very creative, but are still very wrong.
The Anglican ‘church’ provided you are not all mosques a decade from now began as the one True Church – the Roman Catholic one – until you decided that adultery and divorce were fine and dandy. Since then you have been casting of more and more of the Latin tradition, and whatever you are now is a hollow relic of a dead thing. Which is why many of your members came to their senses and returned.
And yes sweetheart, we know the Church is more than some buildings. It is the Church triumphant up in Heaven and its still trying members on Earth hoping to get there, and those already saved but undergoing their final sufferings so that they might be spotless in Heaven. That is my We/Us (learn our pronouns, bigot) in the context of which I spoke, not your misfire into a completely different topic of our personal and final Judgement, but even in that, Joy is still wrong, because there we will still have advocates testifying on our behalf and those prosecutors testifying against us, and the entirety of human history will be watching it and our entire life story with everything that is hidden and embarrassing being brought out into the light. Now what do you imagine all the sodomites are going to say about you if they are condemned to Hell, have nothing to lose, and recognize you as someone who encouraged them or just said some stupid shit like, “God is luv! And I’m not a mean person”? You think anyone there is going to appreciate those sentiments?
Your simplistic and so very wrong views of God are what will do you in. God does hate and also gets angry as much as He loves and forgives and heals. Especially in tbe Old Testament, but also very much in the New one too. You know the spots! And, no, it wasn’t because of general capitalism.
There is NOTHING wrong with hatred and anger. There are things you need to hate in order to be good. If you don’t hate sinning then you’re going to sin. If you can’t get angry when you see something wrong being done, then justice is impossible. The emotion precedes the action. So spare us your public pre-school views of useful emotions like anger. If you can stand by and watch one neighboir be cruel to another neighbour and not feel angry which then moves you to set things right, then there is something seriously wrong with you.
Of course, being human, we misuse good things and so in our excess stupidity we can abuse our God-given emotions of hatred and anger is untoward ways just as a man might stick his penis in the wrong hole where it is not supposed to go for the sexual intercourse for which it is designed. And in the same manner, human beings can use our God-given emotion of love is wrong and abusive and unnatural ways. Just ask the psychologists about all the overnurturing mothers out there who can’t understand why their children hate them or act out over all that love and safety they were giving them just like our caring covid-era governments.
So what is painfully obvious here Joy, is that you are not giving this any deep enough thought and are merely repeating common trophes about what you misheard Christianity to be whilst raised in an adulterous compromised sorry excuse for a religion called Anglicanism that likes to say nice but empty things whilst contradicting itself and enjoying the sound of your own voice.
Perhaps try reading the full Sermon on the Mount, and not just cherry picking nice sounding “anglican” verses (please also note what Jesus says about adultery) and when Jesus says not to resist evil but let them slap both your cheeks, it is not some mystery what He means (maybe to uneducated Anglicans who cherry pick the Bible and which entire Testament they prefer it is – also note Christ is also quoting the Old Testament here), Jesus is saying to keep on defying the evil fools, like for example, a sodomite or an Anglican, and many Anglicans who are also open sodomites, and keep saying and doing things that will make them want to harm you, and if they do, hold back from immediate retaliation and defy them even more by turning the other cheek! Like, what are you gonna do about it likp-wrist? Oh boy do they hate that! As evidenced by the fact that lefties can’t understand why good principled people will prefer losing their jobs, social credit reputation and twitter accounts by standing up for what’s right!
So Joy understands neither love nor anger nor hatred nor moderation nor the Beatitudes or Sermon on the mount nor Who Jesus Christ really is…
There you have it folks – the fullness of Anglicanism as Joy here has demonstrated for us. Gaze upon its emptiness and despair.
Just a note on King Henry VIII prior to his terrible marital times:
Pope Leo X conferred the honor and title of “Defender of the Faith” upon King Henry VIII on October 11, 1521! Henry VIII sought the title and wrote his Assertio Septem Sacramentorum (Defense of the Seven Sacraments) as a refutation of Martin Luther’s teaching to obtain it.
The following site has the whole of King Henry VIII’s Defense of the Seven Sacraments Against Martin Luther, but it is in Latin. Used Google translate for a few sentences, but there are 775 pages!!! It did download as PDF, and so I put it in my Ibooks. Loaded just fine.
https://speccoll.library.arizona.edu/online-exhibits/items/show/1340
Why the King thought that the King ought to be the Head of the Church of the country, makes no sense as the Headship was not that way from the beginning of Christianity. Think that the Popes got too involved with the world and its politics and its material beauties and it does not seem that they stayed enough on track taking the Good News of the Salvation available only in and through Jesus Christ, to all nations.
God bless, C-Marie
C-Marie – “Think that the Popes got too involved with the world and its politics and its material beauties and it does not seem that they stayed enough on track taking the Good News of the Salvation available only in and through Jesus Christ, to all nations.”
While the Popes may be criticized for how they handled this or that political matter, they were still heads of state, and Christianity needed a nation state, just as the Mosaic Temple did with Judah and Israel.
The world was a better more progressive and wealthier place when the Church was a world power that had authority over other nations. Naturally there should still be subsidiarity and local power that should not be interfered with unnecessarily from Vatican-central, which is usually when things go so wrong as they so often do even today. But as a moral authority the Church must be absolute.
Henry VIII knew that, which is why in order to get his adultery sanctioned, he had to get rid of the authority – the Pope and replace it with himself. The same strategy is at play here, except the government has bought out the Church with taxpayer funding for ‘social services’ and ‘education’ and in our times ‘vaccination advertising.’
There’s a reason Christ got ANGRY and HATED what He saw in the Temple with the money men and got VIOLENT – a passage the Joys like to conveniently ignore because it undoes their entire stupid Always-Coca-Cola-Christianity, while the rest of the morons try to spin this as Christ being a good Marxist. They obviously missed all those parables about vineyard owners and innkeepers and fathers of prodigal sons with all that private property.
Johnno,
Only if you’re an awful parent, and what sin/crime/transgression deserves eternal torture?
God doesn’t give any reasons why most sins are wrong, so that’s a non-starter, and if people only change their behavior out of fear of being punished, then isn’t that just self-interest? I’d rather have it that people don’t want to murder me, than that they do want to murder me and only don’t do it to avoid punishment.
You’ve got a wierd idea of Love. If God was evil and sent us to Hell because he hated us, how would we be able to tell the difference? In other words, how can we tell that God isn’t evil, other than him claiming to be good in the Bible – which is exactly what an evil God would do as well?!
— God doesn’t give any reasons why most sins are wrong… —
You, I take it, are not a Christian. He most certainly does give such reasons. They’re called the First and Second Great Commandments. Cf. Matthew 22:34-40.
However, not everything some cleric has called sinful really is sinful. The Great Commandments are also a good filter for those instances in which a cleric has imposed his own notions on his flock, rather than hewing to the words of the Redeemer. That’s why Jesus called them the GREAT Commandments. All that is truly God’s will must be consistent with them.
Ann Cherry,
No, I didn’t claim that. I claimed that if we have a natural explanation for something, it doesn’t make sense to claim it is evidence for the supernatural. Sodom and Gommorah could be real places that were really destroyed by a meteor airburst without any supernatural elements of the Bible story being true in any way. It’s common for fictional stories to reference real places and events as a way of seeming more realistic, hence the fact that Hogwart’s is in the real country of Scotland doesn’t mean that magic is real.
Again, I didn’t claim that. You’re making the same error that Christians make all the time: “X doesn’t prove Christianity isn’t true!” Yes, but where’s the evidence that it *is* true? You can’t prove the existence of angels, Nephilim, or God with an old book, so instead you try reversing the burden of proof and demanding that atheists prove it isn’t true.
Yes, but they’re not usually the heroes of a story – but then this is the Bible. In a later story, Lot has sex with his own daughters, so incest is apparently okay with God. (Just as slavery is.)
Where do I even start?!
1. If preventing the spread of disease is so important to Christianity, why did Jesus tell his disciples not to wash their hands before eating? Why is it mostly Christians who are childishly opposed to wearing face coverings to avoid spreading COVID-19? Why does the Catholic Church campaign to prevent the use of condoms which are *by far* the best way of preventing the spread of HIV?
2. The majority of people who die from HIV are straight, not gay.
3. Are you okay with lesbians, or gay men who don’t have anal sex? If not, why mention anal sex at all? If it’s only anal sex that bothers you, what about straight couples who enjoy it – are they going to Hell? If so, who are they harming?
4. What business is it of yours if people’s lifestyle affects their health anyway? Do you also think people shouldn’t ride motorbikes, or be allowed to eat at McDonalds?
Even if it did “gross me out” (it doesn’t), so what? Finding something gross doesn’t make it immoral. I find meat gross, but I don’t think it’s immoral for people to eat meat, nor would I torture them for all eternity for doing so.
This is truly embarrasing (and childish) stuff. You’re more interested in anal sex than any gay people. And I’m not forcing anyone to do anything.
Francis W. Porretto,
You have an eccentric idea of ‘reasons’ if you think “Love God with all your heart” or “Love your neighbor as yourself” are explanations of why (for example) gay sex is wrong. Logically, if there are reasons why something is wrong independant of “because God says so”, then we could discover those reasons for ourselves without needing God.
I had no idea homosexual sodomy is so important to you, swordfish! Is that why you go by an anonymizing moniker rather than your real name? But perhaps in the great scheme of things it’s of no moment.
Now, as you appear to be a bit slow on the uptake: He who “loves his neighbor as himself” will do nothing to bring harm to his neighbor — original meaning: “one who has been brought near” — and when the circumstances dictate he will actively aid his neighbor in overcoming his trials. For love in the Christian sense – that is, stripped of all its excrescences — is an act of will: good will toward those whom one’s own decisions and actions can affect. All the Commandments of the Decalogue — that’s the Ten Commandments of the Book of Exodus, in case you’re unfamiliar with the older term — are entirely consistent with the Great Commandments. If they weren’t, they could not possibly be valid.
Now, concerning homosexual sodomy, I do intend to address your seemingly overriding concern with it: The Catholic Church teaches that it does harm to its participants. Myself, I’m not so sure that’s an adequate reason for condemning it, though there is some evidence to that effect. (Read this essay for details: http://www.libertystorch.info/2012/09/25/damage/ ) But that’s of no personal concern to me, as I’m straight. If it’s of concern to you, perhaps you should consult a priest…of a proctologist. Please don’t feel obliged to fill us in on any of the details.
Finally: By far the greater part of what God mandates and forbids is discernible from the nature of Man. Indeed, property rights theory will get you to most of it. But point the causal vector properly! The overwhelming consistency of human nature and the laws of the universe with God’s commandments is why we who believe are comfortable with our beliefs. If obeying God’s commandments led to human degradation and the disintegration of human society, there would be reason to doubt their veracity, and therefore the authority of those who proclaim them. But the opposite is true; there has never been a human society in which the negation of the Commandments led to a peaceful, flourishing, and prosperous society. In many cases, it is the awareness of the marvelous congruency between human needs and the Commandments that has led an agnostic or an atheist to embrace the Faith. My most recent novel (“In Vino”) explores this to some depth.
I’m afraid that’s all the time I can spare you, so: Have a nice life.
The truth is that God created each of us, biologically, heterosexually, male or female, as He chose to do. We are all heterosexual by nature. It is sad that the JPII Catechism, produced after Vatican II, does not speak out concerning the deceit of the devil regarding the temptaions of same sex attraction. It almost seems that there may have been a concern regarding writing boldly, led by the Holy Spirit concerning this.
Same sex attraction attacks the very being of a person, for we, human beings, are created by God as heterosexual beings, the man for the woman, and the woman for the man. The destruction of the person’s identity as God’s creation is involved, for these temptations to believe these lies, involves a person’s whole being.
One might well wonder as to why this belief about oneself is not named the believing of a lie, and as such, one can be freed from it utterly by the grace of God. God’s hierarchy of His Church needs to get down on their knees in repentance for not revealing this truth and for not moving in the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit, identifying these attractions as lies and for not setting people free.
There is one who works tirelessly to destroy God’s creation of humanity’s heterosexuality, and that is the devil. The devil continually lies and presents consistently to all peoples, counterfeits to God’s creation of the heterosexuality of human beings. The devil works tirelessly to convince people that they were born that way, LGBT. For anything that the devil can get people to accept so that they become their own god, in that, he absolutely rejoices. But the Bible shows him up to be the liar that he is.
For many, the vicious lies about their sexuality were introduced in their innocent childhood, and for others as teens, young adults, and middle-aged and the elderly, too. The acceptance of these lies concerning human heterosexuality, can come about through poor parenting which can move a person to look for comfort and acceptance from the same sex later on, which comfort and acceptance was not forthcoming from the parent of the same sex. That is probably the most common reason, other than people who practice same sex, just because they choose to do so. But nothing can change the reality of our heterosexuality creation by God.
God bless, C-Marie
C-Marie,
There’s no evidence that we were created, that God created us, or that God exists at all. You can claim we are all heterosexual “by nature” all you want, but you have no evidence to support that. Human beings don’t all like the same music, the same food, or the same anything, and our variations are as much part of human nature as are our similarities. I don’t see any reason why sexual preference would by the only thing where we would be expected to all be the same.
If God loves us, why would he allow the devil to exist? This is yet another thing which is more consistent with God being Evil. You’d expect an Evil God to allow his creations to be lied to so they’d end up in Hell; you wouldn’t expect a Good God to allow such a thing to happen, especially as he is supposed to have created the devil. Why did he do that if he knew what was going to happen?
Why would anyone choose to have sex with people they aren’t attracted to?
swordfishtrombone
July 6, 2021 at 9:09 am
Why would anyone choose to have sex with people they aren’t attracted to?
… and you think we’re naive
Francis W. Porretto,
A childish and unoriginal response. (Note: I’m straight.) You’re not much of an advertisment for your religion, but you’re in good company as there are hardly any Christians on here who come across as even halfway decent. (Joy is one exception.)
Cringe.
This seems irrelevant, so I’ll ask a question: Is it okay for God to break his commandments, or to order others to do so? I ask because events such as the slaughter of the Midianites are inconsistent with loving one’s neighbour as oneself. (Unless loving one’s neighbour means keeping them as sex slaves.)
More cringe. I shouldn’t respond to you, as it feels like I’m just giving you more rope to hang yourself and your awful Church with.
It would be perfectly possible for the Ten Commandments to be an ideal set of moral rules, yet for God not to exist. The fact that these rules aren’t ideal is evidence against God. I suggest that the Ten Commandments are pretty useless. They don’t even forbid rape, slavery, or violence. A society could follow the Ten Commandments to the letter yet still be an absolutely dreadful place in which to live.
I’m pretty sure you’ll respond.
L Ron Hubbard alias John B()
No, not really.
Swordsyfish –
Awful parents are the ones who spoil their kids and don’t give a F and ask the banks to bail them out and then bail out the banks. Good parents berate and punish with neither leniency nor excessiveness, but completely appropriate to the crime.
There is a whole list that you well know deserves eternal torture – but it can be boiled down to this – upon death you are given the choice – live with God in His house and following His rules , or head out on your own and reject Him completely so that you can express and continue doing what you want because you’re a big man!
As the parable of the prodigal son shows, the Father is then under no obligation to provide you with anything more. You are now independent. Except in the case with God that comes up to pretty much EVERYTHING! So if that’s what you choose to reject, then that’s on you. You lose everything! And because God must also dispense Justice to all the Hitlers, white supremacists and many others too, there are therefore applicable punishments to everyone. In these you will differ, but together as a community, you will all be in this together as having chosen to tell God to toss off forever. The denizens of Hell will be given over to the pride they cherish above all else and believing themselves to be the socially just ones will NEVER repent. They have chosen Hell and eternal torture ON PRINCIPLE!
I don’t know why God has to give you a complete scientific paper as to why sticking things up your bum that aren’t medically necessary laxatives or to check you for cancer is bad for you, any more than that God has to explain to you why murder = bad, murder being distinct from justified killing as self defence or punishment for murder. Yes! Wouldn’t it be nice if we all didn’t want to murder each other on principle? But as you well know, the world doesn’t work that way and there are people who have much to gain and profit by from killing. Just ask all the children cut up by Planned Parenthood, which happens because somebody absolutely had to cum! Trust them, it was necessary for such a noble cause! Or just ask Fauci!
How do we know God is pulling a fast one on us by saying Him = good and Us = bad? First do take note: EVERYONE in Hell believes EXACTLY THIS! Why should God define what’s right or not? I should be able to do that myself! I should be God! Yes, aren’t we God’s mobile phone auto-text correctors? God, you really meant to type ‘goog’ not ‘bad’!
The answer comes down to ‘rational faith.’ That’s why I trust Him. Because everything lines up when you do logically examine why He defined certain things and why ignoring them leads to insanity. Or are you enjoying the transgender movement in women’s spas?
Also there’s the fact that God Himself incarnated and made Himself vulnerable to our “goodness” as many wouls like to see it and determined that it was a GOOD THING that we put God to death! And God then used that to open a path where we can escape eternal torture despite all that “good” we showed Him.
All of that works very well in His favor. When you manage to create something out of absolute nothing, then maybe you can also define how its properly used or not and chastise us for abusing it.
That’s why His love is great for those who love Him. But it is eternal torture for those who hate Him. Because being around someone you absolutely hate and can do nothing about sucks. But Hell is as far away as you can get from an eternal being as possible, and that’s also where you’ll share the company of others who hate Him just as much, and because you are made in His image, that’s an in-your-face reminder to everyone about Who they hate, and that’s why everyone in Hell can’t stand each other either and it becomes a game of one-ups-manship over who’s better; Hell – where the social justice initiatives never end! Because if you’ve decided that you’re right and God’s wrong, then who the heck is this other guy beside you to tell you what’s what?
And finally, in case you didn’t notice it. The reason many people aren’t putting on a mask to help prevent Covid, is because they believe THERE IS NO PANDEMIC AND MASKS DON’T WORK. Also there is no evidence HIV causes Aids, which is a scam led by the same Fauci who killed homosexuals with dangerous unnecessary drugs. The Catholic Church has a no-condoms policy because sex is for married committed men and women for the procreation of children and not to treat each other as cum dumpsters because “I gotta cum and I want to be irresponsible at the same time.” Now we have to wear condoms on our face, but at least those do what is advertised even though as we well know, they aren’t 100% which is why we now have baby murder factories. Isn’t that nice? That’s what everything in the end escalates to – murder. Think about that the next time you’re about to sin and think you’re not actually hurting anyone.
July 4th 5:48
Listen to the truth about the reformation:
Reverend Professor Kieth Ward on the reformation and Henry’s dislike of the Pope.
Firs few minutes, but for those who know nothing and are being led up the garden about some of this, it’s worth listening.
https://youtu.be/HuyZYfWWppg
That is what honesty looks like. It seems some Catholics don’t even know what they’re ‘sup[posed’ to believe. Some Protestants are still working out ‘what’ they believe
Enjoyed reading your post UNTIL you stated that the “woke” is asleep. That is a crock of bull. By it’s very nature it is NOT asleep, it is awake. Just because someone is AWARE of the reality of a civilization does not mean it engenders hate. Romans 12:9 – Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. You are being a hypocrite. It is EVIL to treat someone differently because of skin color. YOU, sir, need to WAKE up. Face the reality of society and strive to MAKE it good!.