Statistics

Boris Says Be A Girl For Great Reset; CDC Counts Vaccinated Differently; Kentucky Court Victory; The New HCQ Paper; More! — Coronavirus Update LXXV

JUICING NUMBERS

He who controls the data controls The Science™ (I repeat myself.)

WE TOLD YOU SO

I don’t like recommending long videos, and rarely do it. I recommend this one. Thanks to Christopher Nahr for the tip. These are his summaries:

“It seems like there was a playbook, the playbook was to suppress any hope of treatment, a complete oblivion to treatment, and at the same time prepare the population for mass vaccination. These two are very tightly linked.”

“The suppression of early treatment, and probably even the attenuation of in-hospital treatment, to make the problem worse than what it is. Many methods to make the case count look higher than what it is. Make the mortality numbers worse than what they are.”

“Many methods to create a reaction out of proportion to the reality, so lockdowns, fears, economic suffering, what have you. All these things making the pandemic way worse than what it is, in order to promote mass vaccinations.” (ca. 1:30) @FamedCelebrity you’ve seen this?

“But as we sit here today in May, we have over 4,000 vaccine-related deaths and over 10,000 hospitalizations. The limit to shut down a program is about 25-50 deaths. All the vaccine-related deaths in the United States per year is about 200.” (ca. 1:36)

If you’re short of time, start at 1:07:00.

My only two thoughts when listening (especially at 1:32:00) were: (1) You stupid, stupid idiots, and (2) I told you so.

NOT SO GREAT RESET

I know it’s a lot to ask, and that it takes fortitude beyond which most possess, but I beg you will watch this whole nauseating performance.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1403581774806929410

Still think the “Great Reset” is a conspiracy?

Say, I wonder if this has anything to do with Boris’s missing testicularities?

All this is interesting because of this:

The Brits are slaves to models, which is to say, Experts. You’re sick of me saying it, but all models only say what they are told to say. Are these saying the right thing? If they’re not, will anybody admit a mistake?

Join me next week for more depressing rhetorical questions.

Oh, I’m sure this is a coincidence: Secret planning exercise in 2016 modelled impact of Mers outbreak in UK.

LUCKY KENTUCKY

Judge ruled last Wednesday against Kentucky Governor about his “emergency” coronadoom measures. You can read the ruling here, which is from the Boone Circuit Court, Judge Richard A Brueggemann. Suit was brought by Beans Cafe & Bakery and the State’s Attorney General against Governor Andrew Beshear.

Ruling: “Court finds and declares that all actions taken by [Gov]…and all emergency orders imposed…are unconstitutional, void and without any legal effect”. Gov also cannot attempt to enforce the emergency orders anymore.

In the ruling, the Judge shows he has a sense of humor: “At first, the Governor indicated the emergency would last for just two weeks 11—fourteen days to flatten the curve. But fourteen months later…”

Plaintiff arguments “point to existing data from various states to show that the Governor’s mandates have had no appreciable effect on fighting the coronavirus and that there is no justification in fact for the same to continue.”

Judge even quotes the Barons forcing Magna Carta! “No one in the civil realm, however high their office, is above the law.”

Funniest part is…wait for it…wait for it…plaintiffs hired a woman who used to work for the Fabulous Fauci. She found “government actions…were not associated with statistically significant reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality.”

Hilarious.

She said one “study concludes that the ‘United Kingdom’s lockdown was both superfluous and ineffective,’ and that proponents of government interventions employ ‘circular logic'”.

Witness Perry “testified that both the six-foot-distancing rule, and mask mandates, are wholly ineffective at reducing the spread of this virus. Masks are worthless, he explained, because they are not capable of filtering anything as small as Covid-19 aerosols.”

Petty goes on to discuss at length coronadoom size versus mask effectiveness. Points to CDC which did recommend masks, but also admitted in same document “masks, do not provide . . . a reliable level of protection from . . . smaller airborne particles.” The Science!

The Judge has an entire section in his ruling titled “Data Comparisons: Kentucky and Freer States”. So you can see where he’s going.

Then came the Florida comparisons. FL was free, KY was not. Difference in attributed deaths was a “mere 0.017%,” although in KY’s favor. But 21% FL over 65, and only 17% in KY.

Government witness on PCR Ct levels claims this: “Federal regulation prohibits labs from reporting to the public the number of cycles it took to yield a positive result during the test.”

This has to be BS. I don’t mean the witness is lying, because bureaucracy’s guarantee idiocy.

Government witness Dr Stack is a superior mind and claims “CDC guidance would be too difficult for individual or determinative body of what measures should be imposed upon businesses. Defendants businesses to navigate on their own”.

The Plague of Experts who are smarter than we.

HCQ OKAY?

Many news outlets reporting this: Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin therapy at a higher dose improved survival by nearly 200% in ventilated COVID patients.

The paper is “Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic” on Medrxiv by Leon G Smith and others.

Here’s my take on the paper.

It analyzes 255 intubated coronadoom patients. Authors yet say “Surprisingly, few parameters [comorbidities] distinguished the Alive and Expired groups.” This is like saying high SAT not correlated with college GPA: a conditioning effect. These are sick people so their diagnostics won’t correlate with disease state.

“However, all 43 patients (16.7%) with active cancer, dementia, s/p CVA, and/or COPD expired.” Dude. They did time series regression of Ferritin, D-dimer, LDH & CRP, and the dead had “higher slopes”. Interesting but weak. Only 9% had normal A1C. BMI mean of 31.4 (16.3 — 65.7).

We performed extensive analyses of all therapeutics given to Cohort patients during these admissions. Initially, we studied therapeutics by drug class, such as benzodiazepine or calcium channel blocker. When a drug class showed a potential effect on outcome, we analyzed the individual drugs. Therapeutics were analyzed categorically, in time-series, fashion and/or by cumulative dose. Other than the medications discussed below, no medication or class of medication was associated with outcome.

Steroid use (of any kind) was “inconclusive”. “91 patients (35.7%) of the Cohort received 1-2 doses of tocilizumab (TOZ) and 35.2% survived.”

Finally HCQ given to 224 patients (87.8%). 2/3 of them also given AZM. Age, timing about the same for who got and didn’t.

Initial lasso and Cox proportional hazard model regression analyses showed that higher cumulative doses of HCQ were associated with a lower mortality rate. With every natural log increase in HCQ cumulative dose, patients were 1.12 times less likely to die [p<0.001]. Accordingly, 3,000 mg HCQ cumulative dose had a survival OR = 2.46.

When AZM and HCQ were given together, the association with survival greater than when HCQ was given alone. We finally noticed that patients, who received cumulative doses HCQ > 3,000 mg and AZM > 1,000 mg, had a much higher survival rate than all others.

37 patients received > 3g HCQ and > 1g AZM. 18 patients (48.6%) of these 37 patients survived. Comparatively, 36 patients (16.5%) of 218 patients who received either <= 3g HCQ or <= 1g AZM survived. The absolute difference (32.1%) in survival was significant [C.I = 15.9% — 48.2%; p <0.0001]. The relative difference in survival = 194.5%. Differences of these magnitudes have not been reported in other clinical studies.

Since this was observational, we don’t know why patients were prescribed HCQ or why which doses were used. Maybe those patients doing better anyway were given HCQ because docs said, “Can’t hurt to try since they’re doing well.”

They do a technical, supposedly causative calculation called TE. It’s technical calculation, not that interesting, and anyway effect is small.

Overall, it’s some but far from conclusive evidence HCQ boosted survival length a bit in these already very sick, fat, old and hyperglycemic and ALREADY intubated patients.

But, given no real side effects, it doesn’t seem like it hurts to try.

FABULOUS FAUCI DEIFIED

Now we know what, rather who, The Science is.

SO IT WAS POLITICS ALL ALONG

Where else have you heard this?

STATE UPDATE

Turns out lockdowns and mask mandates associated somewhat with higher death rates. Golly.

Michigan (lockdown tyranny, the Attorney General misbehaving, etc.) 207 deaths per 100,000.

Nebraska (freedom), 117 deaths per 100,000.

Florida (freedom, plenty of old folks), 173 deaths per 100,000.

These are all-time numbers and will only increase, of course.

KIDS & VEXXINES

To date, from the beginning of time, 78 babies (under 1) had deaths attributed to COVID; 37 kids 1-4 had them; and 108 5-14 had them.

New deaths numbers are dropping, too.

Are vexxines, which harm the younger more than the older, really needed in kids?

Hey, that isn’t me asking. It’s WHO. (Don’t make me do Abbot and Costello again.)

Bonus suspicion!

BOOK

The Price of Panic.

Website of similar name: price of panic.

THE NUMBERS

Sources: CDC State data (source), CDC official toll number one, number two (the old weekly file, now suspect). Causes of death (source). Deaths by age. Covid & flu. WHO flu tracker. All current as of Monday night.

Daily tests (not shown; see here from Johns Hopkins) leveled off a bit. Just under around 650,000 a day. Panic won’t be over until this number sinks to same level as flu tests.

CDC deaths “involving” COVID.

Even with the late numbers, it’s still dropping. Even the media is now forced to admit it.

The week-of-the-year all-cause deaths.

Green line is 2021, red is 2020. The dotted line are all cause deaths minus COVID. That means the 2020 deaths that look out of place (above the mass of other lines but below the dotted line) are likely deaths caused by the panic.

Again, been saying this since week 9, but even accounting for late counting, 2021 deaths are at or below where’d we expect them. Yes, people really do die of things other than COVID. The crisis has long passed. But still we cling to our fear.

Here’s more proof the crisis is over:

Heart disease and cancer and—updateunclassified are killing more people now. Stroke is now about the same as COVID.

Now those unclassified deaths are curious. The codes indicate those times when the doctors aren’t quite sure why the person died. For instance, “Ill-defined and unknown cause of mortality”.

We’re pretty sure these aren’t missed coronadoom deaths, because any hint of a positive test is listed as a doom death.

Notice the rise of these unclassifieds. Could they be related to the vexxines? The rise is certainly co-incident with rise in vexxines. This is a forbidden question on social media, so don’t ask it, or they will ban you. That’s how The Science works, by limiting uncomfortable questions.

Flu is still missing, but it’s always low this time of year, so I’ll skip the plot.

We heard the media try to juice the panic saying “variants” are spreading among the young. Maybe so, but, to date, only 309 people 17 and under died from the doom in the States. That’s up 9 in a one month period. Calm yourselves.

About masks in more depth, see this article and this one and especially this one. Leave the Cult of the Mask.

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Categories: Statistics

111 replies »

  1. It was always politics. Politics all the way down. Not just to eliminate Bad Orange Man but to punish the people for electing him the first place and to make sure it never happened again.

    This was obvious around May 1 of last year.

  2. Come on, the British were always ****** (can’t be used on family blog) which is why we are not part of England now. They are the most effeminate, hen-pecked loser males out there. See Harry and Megan for a prime example.

    We don’t need a long video by another “expert”. Everyone should have KNOWN no cheap, readily available drug would ever be used. Unless they are too stupid to breathe. Also, lying about the counts—come on, when 8 measles cases are an outbreak, again, how could you be so stupid as to not see where this is going???????

    Why unlock the cowardly Brits? They are too stupid to fight back…..And being a dictator is so much fun, especially when people are not trying to kill you like they did in the old days.

    Fauci should be referred to by another term not usable on a family blog. I despise Trump for not firing him to start with. Seems Trump has no balls, Fauci has a set that requires a wheelbarrow to tote around.

    With that heart inflammation thing, is it the shot that causes the problem or the males that had the problems to start with???? Males in that particular age catagory drop dead from heart attacks frequently. I had a friend whose nephew died in his sleep at 20 due to this heart problem. So are the anti-vaxxers playing the blame game and ignoring reality because that MODEL fits their belief system? Is the vaccine an early warning that many chose to ignore, even if it kills young males? Where have we seen that?

    Again, improperly tested and administered vaccine=NOT SCIENCE. No better than homeopathic or a witch doctor. Can it be any any clearer?

    It’s the money. It’s ALWAYS the money. Why is anyone surprised Trump’s nitwits are cashing in? They are as greedy as Biden’s are, only with less practice.

  3. Oh, and for those who saw the “shocking increase” at VAERS last week (self reporting, unverified site tracking adverse reactions) if you use this as some kind legitimate metric, YOU MUST ACCEPT ANYTHING ON WIKI as the truth. If you use a “self-reporting, NO VERIFICATION OF ANY KIND site, then you cannot dispute WIKI and as such must accept global warming. Got it????

  4. —————————————–
    —————————————–
    ——— I AM SCIENCE———-
    ——-AND SO CAN YOU!——
    -The Best-Selling Guide to-
    —-becoming an Expert!—–
    —————————————–
    —————————————–
    —————————————–
    —————————————–
    ——Dr. Anthony Fauci——-
    —————————————–
    –Imprimatur by Francis I–
    —————————————–

  5. That Dr. McCullough interview has got to be one of the most important videos of the decade.

    Briggs, can you a brief chart to your weekly updates that compares total death rate of the Doom (with up to date numbers) to the Spanish flu, the 1957 pandemic and the 1968 pandemic? This would provide context for the disproportionate fear, panic and government response to the Doom versus the other pandemics in recent history.

  6. Bernard

    Doing so would also demonstrate that Covid was over with or without a vaccine …

  7. I too would like to see those charts overlaid, heck, even throw in the Spanish flu. As John said, there’s a good chance they’d show us that nature, like Africa, always wins.

  8. It’s all a brilliant exercise in learned helplessness the epitome of social science
    research starting with The Tavastock Institute UK and ending with the The Frankfort
    School at Columbia. (and you snickered at Pavlov) Lenin upon meeting
    Pavlov and learning of his dog research quipped ‘that’s exactly what I want for Russia’.
    Some not all of the aides accompanying him were said to have been shocked.
    Feudalism is back forget all those other ism’s. Best thing to do at this point is
    buy a roto tiller and some bean seeds because they’re coming for the food; and like
    good cuts of beef they’ll price it out of reach.

  9. I see Tom Chivers at Unherd is pushing more variant porn panic: “Why third jabs are inevitable
    The variants are going to keep on circulating without another vaccine.” Why stop at 3 then? The virus won’t stop mutating. This is a recipe for lockdowns and Covid hysteria to never ever end. Which seems to be what many want. Of course, every virus mutates – in fact I’ve read that there is evidence vaccines and other interventions can actually help promote more rapid mutations – including ordinary flu, which is why Big Pharma pushes new vaccines (equally useless) on people every year for those.

    Regarding the KY case: Excellent result, of course, but too late in that most of our pissant Governor’s orders were set to expire last Friday anyway, though perhaps useful as a precedent if he gets any ideas in the future (when ongoing variant porn and Fall “cases” rise, as they do every year for respiratory viruses). Without these precedents, governors and meddlesome bureaucrats everywhere making up tyrannical arbitrary rules can just keep repeating the same thing and tying it up in new legislation every go ’round. Of course, the judge tried last summer, and was overruled by the state Supreme Court, which stayed his injunction of the Governor’s orders pending the trial result on the merits. One big difference now is that the state legislature early this year made changes to state law – greatly restricting the Governor’s power – that was applicable at the time the case began and the first Supreme Court stay of the injunction last Summer. It will be interesting here to see if Supreme Court intervenes again and rules in favor of the regime (Supreme Courts are more political than judicial, and focused more on press and elite society image than they are on Truth and Justice and doing what’s right; they had a hearing last Thursday, just a day after this case came down, but it had already been scheduled, and it was not clear this case was a part of their deliberations; I’ve been able to find very little reporting on either the Circuit Court case or the Supreme Court hearing, though lots still about the case last Summer; it’s as if the the media – surprise! – just wants tot memory-hole the case and the issues it raises now, since it went against the Beshear regime).

    Like Briggs, I thought it was great that one of the Plaintiff’s key witnesses against effectiveness of lockdowns and other measure was former Fauci colleague. “Dr. Rutherford stated that, at first, she trusted Dr. Fauci and the CDC even though they were pushing governments to impose measures, such as social distancing, that were not based
    upon known science [!! Why did she trust even then?]. However, Dr. Rutherford testified that in the following months, as a result of their actions, she no longer trusts what they say. It isn’t just that the government lockdowns did not help. Rather, she opined, the government’s actions have inflicted more harm and death.”

    The section on lack of effectiveness of masks and anti-social distancing was good as well. I though the section on comparing Kentucky with other, freer states could have been more detailed and used more data than just Florida, but perhaps those details were in the case exhibits, and the judge was just necessarily summarizing a few key points in his decision (but, given the likelihood of Supreme Court scrutiny, I think he should have been as thorough as possible in the actual final Opinion). I would also have liked more detail on over all false positive rate of PCR and its misuse as a diagnostic tool in general (rather than mostly focusing on cycle count for “breakthrough cases”).

    A few key lines that stood out:
    1. Regarding the issue of emergency decree time limitations in the new laws and the state legislature being in session only for a relatively short time each year, which the Governor basically claimed gave him the right to rule by decree still if he declines to call a Special Session in an “emergency”: “If a purported emergency that would extend beyond 30 days is not sufficiently urgent to call a special session, then it is not sufficiently urgent to justify the imposition of indefinite and open-ended rulemaking by executive decree. As John Adams counseled, ‘The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty’…In effect, Defendants seek declaratory judgment that the Constitution provides this broad power so long as he utters the word, “emergency.” It does not. For this Court to accept Defendant’s position would not be honoring its oath to support the Constitution; it would be tantamount to a coup d’etat against it.

    2. “What the people have endured over the past fifteen months—to borrow a phrase from
    United States District Judge Justin R. Walker—“is something this Court never expected to see outside the pages of a dystopian novel.”

    3. I like this paragraph too about what suffering people and businesses have endured: “At the hearing, Defendants took exception to the Attorney General’s characterization of the Governor’s actions as a “lockdown,” and argued that prohibiting persons from entering those restaurants is not the same as ordering that they be closed. But that doesn’t minimize the impact on those who lost their businesses as a result, or those in nursing homes condemned to spend their final hours alone, deprived of the comfort from loved ones (or even any real contact with humanity), or those citizens who the Governor prohibited from celebrating their wedding day with more than ten persons, or those he forced to bury their dead alone, without the consoling presence of family and friends (and who likewise were deprived of paying their final respects), or those persons who were barred from entering church to worship Almighty God during Holy Week, and even Easter Sunday, or those persons who were denied access to health care, including cancer-screenings, or those denied entry into government buildings (which they pay for with their taxes) in order to obtain a necessary license, and who were forced to wait outside for hours in the sweltering heat, or rain, purportedly to keep them from getting sick.”

    I especially liked the liner about “or those denied entry into government buildings (which they pay for with their taxes) in order to obtain a necessary license…” I have effectively been unable to get my notary renewed for a year now (something that normally takes about 10-15 minutes every 4 years) due to the insane County Clerk closures and restrictions. I have an appointment July 1 (made in April, the third of several delays since last June) and in light of this ruling, all remaining restrictions of any kind on normal conduct of business should be gone. Most private sector businesses have already done away with the mask nonsense, etc., even before June 11 and the official expiration of the Governor’s lawless orders. We’ll see if government agencies comply – if they don’t I am going to raise Hell with the clerk’s office and anyone else I can.

    As an aside, I thought it amusing that the judge began his analysis with a reference to the Magna Carta. As any Catholic should know, the Magna Carta – despite the great mythologizing of it over the centuries in English law – was literally not worth the parchment it was written on. Not only did both sides – rebel Barons and King – fail to uphold their declared obligations under the Charter – but the great Pope Innocent III (Lotario di Segni, former guardian of Fredrick II – the Stupor Mundi – and author of one of the great works of Mediaeval misanthropy, “On the Misery of the Human Condition”), just two months after it was signed, declared it to have been extracted by force, and thus “shameful and demeaning but also illegal and unjust…null, and void of all validity for ever,” and enjoined both sides from recognizing or enforcing it under threat of excommunication. 🙂

  10. I’ve seen stories in multiple sources wringing their hands about the ending of masking. Not because it will cause COVID-19 to kill everyone; the current narrative is that “the vaccine” will save us from that. No, the reason given is that since it is “known” that masks prevented people from getting the flu, that by not wearing them we are inviting a catastrophic flu season.

    Seems pretty clearly telegraphing that they are going to stop lying about flu numbers in the future. Not sure if this is to get people to panic over that and thus renew restrictions on a permanent scale, or if they are simply setting up an exit strategy because the coronapanic is no longer beneficial to their interests.

  11. The idea that viruses mutate into variants which is scaring everyone is thanks to decades of the public being brainwashed on Darwin’s bullshit.

    Fauci wants you to believe in “evolution” as in the idea that things magically get much more complex and therefore scarier and more grandously spontaneously powerful, just like Pokémon, and so you should always live in total fear of the neverending variants.

    But mutations are always the result of reduced complexity due to copying errors where things lose a function or trait. Sometimes this does offer a survival advantage. In species of insects, the loss of certain colours on their wings might help them be better camoflagued. In viruses, the loss of a certain part may mean that the prior medicine used to target that part may cease to work, in which case you’ll need to change or adjust the treatment. But it is never more complex, and in the grand majority of cases usually results in either nothing serious or in a weaker virus, much less something insurmountable, or the mutation has next to no effect either for good or ill as to be completely meaningless in its discovery as a variant. Like comparing how much money Walmart is saving you versus the competitor by charging you 3 cents less, but this is still rounded up as the checkout. Thanks, I guess…

    So the difference in percentiles of variation is as meaningless as the few decimal percentages of protection that a mask will offer you.

    “Oh! But think of where it works with the greater concentrations!” shrieks the concerned woman on the Tele.

    No honey, if you’re in grave danger of dying of heatstroke due to your unique vulnerability, you stay away from the Sahara Desert altogether. You don’t vacation in it anyway thinking your hat and sunscreen are adequate. THE SCIENCE ™ will use all its fancy lasers and gadetrons to discover the percentages of protection thry offer and put it proudly on the box. But they won’t do anything. Stop kidding yourselves.

  12. Rudolph: I’ve seen the same reports. Saw something the other day promoting permanent masking of CHILDREN in schools on grounds it prevents flu and colds. Fraudci himself was promoting general flu-season masking from now on just a month ago. Some people are addicted to their muzzles and seem to enjoy their abjection.

  13. Just listened to the Dr. Peter McCullough video and all suspicions are confirmed.
    This is what a real conspiracy looks like.

    Thanks Briggs

  14. Watched Dr. McCullough’s presentation. We’re in the shit. The devils at our throat mean to put us down, permanently. Let’s give them a spirited riposte, laddies.

    Thanks Briggs.

  15. Briggs, McCullough is you as a medical doctor.

    Bracing to see courage in action.

  16. “Say, I wonder if this has anything to do with Boris’s……”
    Attributed to the twitteratn foreigner person:
    “— Raheem J. Kassam (@…”
    FYI
    Carrie [Simmons] was her maiden name. Hope they both live happily ever after their wedding @ Westminster Cathedral. Not Westminster Abbey

  17. “Doing so would also demonstrate that Covid was over with OR without a vaccine …’???

    If your only source is the one that’s claimed to be dubious:
    Why do you draw any conclusions from it at all?

    It’s like choosing a bible to disagree with all the live long day
    You would call such a person insane or at least dim

    I put this to JOhnBy ONLY because he’s one of the last chances of reasonable , credible answer. A response that isn’t a fallacy from the start. Not that others aren’t capable, but the probability is very low based n historical data with a fairly high degree of certainty

  18. “Just listened to the Dr. Peter McCullough video and all suspicions are confirmed.
    This is what a real conspiracy looks like.”

    So true: The error is on the side of the person confirming their bias
    that’s the nature of conspiracy theory

  19. It seems like there was a playbook, the playbook was to suppress any hope of treatment, a complete oblivion to treatment, and at the same time prepare the population for mass vaccination. These two are very tightly linked.”

    “it seems like”
    There you go
    Then insert a knowledge of how medical treatment works for respiratory disease or any, for that matter and you know right away that saying such a thing is complete ignorant rubbish.

    The two aren’t mutually exclusive
    It’s another false dichotomy based on some person’s idea of how treatment and medical intervention operates.

    As for disaster preparedness, Global pandemic was/is considered the most likely serious risk, to humans.
    (not to be deliberately conflated with a risk of human extinction or any other cartoon claim).
    What you may or may not know, is that Britain was listed not number one, but high on the hit parade of preparedness….number two,I think.

    The problem with such preparedness is that it never comes with a crystal ball.
    PPE was considered over ordered compared with what was needed in this epidemic, for example.
    (due to clinical details which conspiracists don’t believe)

    Information which would have really changed the original number of deaths, would be understanding asymptomatic spread in greater detail.
    That it was possible was not unknown.

    Saving lives, (which doesn’t matter when jobs are on the line, would have had to also include a fully functioning test track and trace system to facilitate safe interactions between people.

    Countries have that now. What they don’t have is the gene sequence for the next disease.

  20. The man is just annoyed because his fellow colleagues are caught out even when they were warned.
    by the UK chief medical officer and many other reliable sources.

    If we all knew before this, “FDA expert”., then his way of knowing global ‘best practice’ has got a bit rusty…perhaps a bit overly reliant on the Italians alone? Who is he trying to kid?

    Sounds from his description that he’s conspicuously missed out that the UK [told] the US well in advance. Faudci was ignoring us, of course, but I am surprised this disease of pride goes so far down the tree.

    Your MD’s were warned and had access to all the available information from us because we put it in the public domain and as for speedy formal treatment trials? they were carried out faster than any other place in the world. By a long way and the numbers of participants was also larger.

    Yet apparently, this never reached the US! Poor show on his side. He is responsible for his own knowledge base.

    China, (Drs) as already said a year back, , had already described in good clinical detail, the signs and symptoms and that early respiratory support had an effect on good outcomes.

    He makes a repeated. list of interventions which were ALL used from the start. Vaccines were developed in parallel in entirely different venues and with separate funding.

    I’d like to hear some actual dates WHEN he says he discovered what covid ‘was’ because at the moment he’s looking like he was late on parade.

  21. “The Man” being the cardiologist and renal consultant and FDA ‘expert panelist” in the video

    The video requires transcribing for close examination for presence of the following:
    False assertions *straw men & red herrings), deliberate or accidental;
    repetition;
    irelavance;
    Contemporaneous Dates for chronological truth, (if any dates appeared) didn’t notice any, (up to the point the repetitions started);

    What’s actually left.
    Initial impression:
    Seems like someone who’s upset, like everybody else, in their own special way and looking for someone else to blame rather than seeing it for what it is.

  22. …and in England!, where we speak the language:
    We definitely DON”T say:
    “blows the lid off of…”
    That is a reason to smile

  23. “Carrie [Simmons] was her maiden name. Hope they both live happily ever after their wedding @ Westminster Cathedral. Not Westminster Abbey”

    Why have you changed her maiden name to “Simmons”? It was correct in Raheem’s tweet.

    And yes, sadly Westminster Abbey remains under Anglican occupation, like so many great cathedrals and abbeys throughout Britain and Ireland confiscated by the rapacious Hank VIII, Liz I, and others of their ilk. Pray that they be restored to Holy Mother Church. 🙂

  24. Joy obviously took her lethal injection, still wears her mask, and is projecting her confirmation bias with FUD talking points that don’t refute a thing other than to say,”Look at all of these FEELINGS that I FEEL about that doctor saying things I don’t like!” Don’t fail to note all the guesswork she puts down about what everything “seems like” to her while expecting you to do her homework for her to reach her prepared conclusion for a video examination. Typical expert! Never doubt the model!

  25. Johnno,
    It’s the expert on covid who his minder says:
    “blew the lid off of covid’, who said it, I repeated.

    On the use of “seems like”:
    When that phrase is used to a person who’s in a position to respond, it’s perfectly acceptable and even honest, as they have the opportunity to make corrections in an honest debate.

    When someone makes an assertion about a conspiracy en mass involving the entire world and all that is in it,
    “seems like” is a bit weak
    He’s welcome to his take on how the US managed the disease but not beyond the point of what’s actually true.
    Same for me, same for anyone.

  26. Dennis,
    Because in the news on the internet it is spelled that way when describing her mother comming to live at downing street in a bubble to help with or see their new baby.

    Bad luck you loose! See ya wouldn’t wanna be ya!

    Can’t you persuade some of your rich philanthropists to build some cathedrals? Vagus has a lot of good builders, evidently.

    You could build your own cathedral city from scratch! complete with gargoyles and flying butresses
    (they’re actresses before they marry princes)

    Seriously, I always wonder why nobody ANYWHERE doesn’t build like they used to in Gothic or other time periods. Even Georgian building has the wrong proportions. You just can’t get the architects.

  27. Why do they call him hank?
    YOS likes to do that too, so earnest about of the divinity of the Christian church.
    It’s all a game and has nothing to do with God

    Rees Mogg’s okay with it why aren’t you?
    He’s probably harbouring deep seated desires to make a comeback and take back the cathedrals from the English. It’s a conspiracy, we could be persecuted!

  28. Dennis,
    Just checked the returns on google and “Simmons” still appears but it’s mostly saying “Symonds”
    A biography, an article from the Sun. amongst others.

  29. “Because in the news on the internet it is spelled that way when describing her mother comming to live at downing street in a bubble to help with or see their new baby.
    Bad luck you loose! See ya wouldn’t wanna be ya!”

    OK, whatever. In a search of her on Duck Duck Go, every article in US and UK media I see, including her Wikipedia page, spells it “Symonds.” (And frankly, until your post above about Raheem’s Tweet, I’d never even known BJ’s new wife’s first name – only checked Raheem’s link because he claimed she’s involved in some kind of occult sex magik rituals – in other words, she’ll fit right in with the globalist cabal! – and noticed you were calling him out for allegedly misspelling when the article itself uses Symonds).

    “Why do they call him Hank?”

    No real reason, other just to enjoy knocking the bastard down a peg with a flippant take on his Royal Lowness’ name. Ditto his literal bastard, Liz I.

    “Can’t you persuade some of your rich philanthropists to build some cathedrals?…You could build your own cathedral city from scratch! complete with gargoyles and flying butresses.”

    Alas, I don’t know any rich philanthropists who could fund my Poundbury-like (though in the style of the High Middle Ages) new model town, complete with Gothic cathedral and castle with moat and dragons for myself. 🙂 If you know any such angel investors, please put me in touch. Perhaps I could ask Sylvain to try his Hong Kong gf (I’ve seen stories recently about towns modeled on European classic architecture that are quite popular in Japan and China. Did you know there’s a whole town in Japan modeled on classic Swedish architecture of a kind Swedes themselves sadly no longer build? Wild.).

  30. “bad luck you loose….”
    Dennis, I was playing about the Cathedral takeover by the evil protestants
    Simmons vs Symonds you win, the spelling Bee
    It stood out to me too, on google though it was spelt ‘simmons’ and since the article was detailed on al lthe ins and outs of her interests and affiliations (which is celebrity cossip), I assumed it would at least have the name right.
    Yet what’s the truth about the rest, I don’t care. if it’s untrue, or true, what a comment on those copying the information.
    See wmbriggs.com on details about sex cults, spirit cooking and Katy perry or will Farrell, for techincal details about what cannibals actually do. and how much devout Catholics care about it.

  31. Johnno,

    But mutations are always the result of reduced complexity due to copying errors where things lose a function or trait.

    Wrong. Copying errors can include duplication, which increases the length of a genome. Duplicated sections are then subject to further mutation in successive generations, resulting in greater complexity.

    So the difference in percentiles of variation is as meaningless as the few decimal percentages of protection that a mask will offer you.

    If masks only reduce the chance of getting COVID19 by 5%, that’s still 30,000 lives saved out of 600,000. I don’t call 30,000 deaths meaningless.

  32. Swordfish,
    Good point about mutations,
    The disease is mad more contagious directly due to the mutations of such small changes on the genetic code.

    Posted a lecture about this from Wendy Barclay but skeptics united don’t listen to the science, they just know it’s wrong

  33. comment as 10; 44am second paragraph:
    We knew, where was he? I asked where was Fauci at the time but this Dr’s not part of the keystone cops people who were supposed to be advising Trump.

    Everyone knew, yet he had to phone and talk to Italy to find out? Italy? and Sweden? wow

    That is a clear indication, easily verified as proof *for the skeptic, that something’s up with this man’s story. If I go looking for exact chronological timing, via witness making statements; you’ll skim past as you all always do.

    Carry on to the next week’s episode!

    Just like the tea party in Wonderland, “move down, move down,”

    All you need to do is check when the information was known. Why would I have to do that for you anyway?
    Apart from the fact that you disbelieve anything that is contrary to your skeptical beliefs? Why should I waste my precious time, on an angry stranger on the internet?

    It isn’t me that need be convinced, it’s you, after all.

  34. Sage were already meeting from mid January. The US military, were on the case, whatever he says.

    We saw Trump taking advice from Navy medics (white ones, not navy ones) who spoke calm sense and were on the ball. All was well.
    Faudci would sidle up and it would all go pear shaped: wooly talk, contrived questions regarding politics; not good for public information.

    Something went wrong in the transmission of information to the public ear. Social media has to take a lot of the blame for that, together with mainstream media.

    What (he) knew, regarding treatment options, in spring 2020, when presented with a covid patient, was just the same or should be, as every other medic in the world. If it was less? What does that say?
    RE treatment options:
    There are only so many reasonable interventions for a given clinical presentation. The more urgent the situation, the narrower the options. In that sense, making those decisions is made simpler, not necessarily easier.

    What inevitably improves over time is greater understanding of the pathology. Which is what happened. This only gives more power to the clinical staff to manage what’s going on with each new bit of information. It’s how medicine works but in rapid time, rather than the usual slow motion.
    Re fear:
    If there’s nobody to treat patients, everybody’s back to the middle ages again.
    The Dr spoke of fear which he projected, according to the skeptics united bible, about the potential crisis about to hit. The opposite was likely the case from critical care staff. Adrenaline, not fear. They thought the’d have it covered. They discovered they didn’t because of sheer numbers of patients.
    Authorities were protecting the services from breaking and that was/is the right thing to consider doing. How that is achieved is another matter.

    It’s afterwards when the post traumatic stress kicks in.
    ~~~
    Middle ages? You should join the SCA,

    Write to Donal Trump about Dollarbury. You’ve burnt your bridges with Sylvain. *only spotted his good news on a reread.

    Longing for those surroundings is not strange at all. There’s a lot of pretentious stuff written on this subject but people are effected if their surroundings are ugly and they have no choice but to look at it all. Get out of town Dennis, (not in the cowboy sense) for as long and as often as you can organise.
    Parks aren’t ‘out’ enough, if masks trigger you, or vent the thought of seeing one! Top of a mountain, edge of the land or deep in a forrest is where out is, perhaps in a cave? Under the sea? Scuba? You need more beauty in your life, we all do. Uncle Mike’s got it sussed.

    Middle Ages? You mean 14th century? When women behaved themselves?
    You would love the SCA if you’re not already a member, you’d fit right in.

    We’re all very glad not to be Spanish over here, so should you be, but whatever floats your boat. Latin countries don’t show a single example of a good way to organise your country. Do they? Who’d wish that on themselves?

    Liven the Vatican? Hmm something tells me there’d be something missing.

  35. “Middle Ages? You mean 14th century? When women behaved themselves?”

    Yes, we need more St. Joans and St. Catherines to whip some modern soyboys into shape! 🙂

  36. When (your) ideal Joan type shows up dressed as a medieval Nun type, or any other hypocrite, with their whips, most men run away, if they’re sensible.
    who could blame them.
    *so glad I’m not Spanish

  37. “When (your) ideal Joan type shows up dressed as a medieval Nun type, or any other hypocrite, with their whips”

    How was St. Joan (or any other “medieval Nun type” – though St. Joan was a warrior, not a “nun type”) a “hypocrite”? Or is this just old English prejudice against the mighty Maid of Orleans?

    But yes, most of the soyboys would probably run away – sensible or not.

    Being sensible is quite over-rated. We must RETVRN and cultivate eccentricity and divine madness! 🙂 (or perhaps this is just my recent re-reading of Hölderlin’s “Hyperion” inspiring me!)

  38. SAGE were already meeting from mid January. The US military, were on the case, whatever McCullough says.
    Unless the Navy Sgts and Admirals were playing a dressing up game?

    For last week’s lottery win, see Dr McCullough
    Or just check the source.

    Reminds me one of my seniors once told a patient of ours she wasn’t really a physiotherapist she just stole a uniform from the cupboard. I’m still smiling about that, it’s how you feel sometimes!

  39. Is human physiology supposed to somehow work differently in the states?
    Blue lips is a SIGN of central cyanosis.

    “We’re literally telling people to go home and don’t come back to us until your lips are blue”
    (Paraphrased,)

    They would be rightly taken to task, fail a final, sued, if they gave out
    LETHAL advice.
    They are traitors to their profession and their colleagues.
    The best they might have from that position is to say they were being hyperbolic.
    AKA exaggerating for effect and it’s certainly succeeds with the skeptics.

    Drug repurposing is commonplace:
    There’s nothing innovative about their solutions, failed business or not.

    1
    Epidemic management 101. See video evidence posted from Chris witty
    (Failing that) see deputy CMO and CMO with health secretary describing the treatment options , Boris describing treatment using existing drugs, in daily briefings to anyone who was listening

    2
    It has happened everywhere else, where were they?

    Dexomethazone was used in treating symptoms straight away. Hence the early “trials”

    Chinese had already tried many of the usual interventions for adult respiratory distress syndrome. The information was passed onto the Europeans but everybody had access the same time as to what Chinese Drs had learned. The chain of information did not need to take the same path as the virus! That it looked like it was at least as slow is another matter. We’re being asked to believe an awful lot o f highly unlikely things are happening!

    NO honourable, sane, front line healthcare provider, let alone physician, sends patients home and says ‘come back when your lips are blue’!

    If you believe that you believe anything.

    FYI
    When giving information o patients, there may be occasions when , on discharge, for example, or between visits, they are warned for ‘red flag’/cardinal signs or symptoms.

    The term “red flag” I would never use with a patient, it is a clinical term.
    However it is important that people know how to care for themselves and how to look out for potential complications.

    Regarding treatment of covid, patients in any kind of respiratory distress are, even mild shortness of breath, is a reason to attend Accident and Emergency. The reasons are not new ones and not unique to covid 19.

    Sudden onset of shortness of breath is a sign, potentially, of pulmonary embolism .
    That didn’t only happen last year or the year before.

    Failure to seek medical help in time with such symptoms is not a new problem.
    I’ve spoken about this before as if it needed saying. Particularly men of a certain age, until they reach about sixty to seventy, when attending hospital is a day out!

    Boris fell into the trap of thinking he could be brave.
    I could see he wasn’t well BEFORE we heard he’d been admitted and he was no doubt advised properly
    Chest pain and shortness of breath should never be ignored. “blue lips” normally a symptom the public understand as just a sign of being cold.

  40. clarification:
    Regarding treatment of covid:

    Patients in any kind of respiratory distress,( even mild shortness of breath, is a warning symptom)

    Should seek medical assessment (Accident and Emergency), not their General practitioner, since all the Gp will do, is sit you down and call an ambulance, if indicated with an aspirin under the tongue, particularly if you have chest pain. With covid 19 on the ‘menu’, there is a higher probability or reason to suspect that more serious pathology may develop and this happens fast and without fanfare or a gradient of symptom tolerability.

    If in doubt, go to hospital for reassurance. Which is what a lot of this fussing and chaos is about

  41. Excerpt from 30th April 2020
    Public information lecture from Gresham college: Indicates the state of play at that time.
    See beginning of paragraph five of the quote.

    “Although we tend to think of the direct causes of mortality from this disease. There are also FOUR ways this epidemic will cause excess mortality and morbidity, (morbidity being people who get severely ill but maybe not to the point of dying.

    There are the direct causes of deaths from the corona virus, assuming that the health service is functioning optimally: So these are people who die, of the disease, despite the fact the health service is working fine and this is a very dangerous disease particularly for older people or people with coexisting health conditions.

    The second cause of death, which has occurred in some areas, hasn’t occurred to date, in the uk, I’m glad to say, Is indirect deaths, because the health service becomes overwhelmed and therefore unable both to treat people with covid 19 and also, potentially, overwhelmed and unable to treat other things.
    …and a lot of the activities that countries around the world in Europe, in the US , in china and elsewhere have done, is to make sure health services are not overwhelmed and therefore this cause of indirect deaths does not occur.

    The third cause of mortality or morbidity is indirect deaths, either because the health service has had to cancel things and in the Uk to make space for the surge of people who had covid, coming into the NHS, we had to cancel a lot of, or postpone a lot of, non urgent but important things, elective surgery for example, screening, or potentially because people are afraid to come into hospital or don’t want to overwhelm the system and stay at home despite the fact they have heart attacks strokes or other severe causes of mortality…

    and It is very important and we stress this throughout this whole epidemic in the UK to date,
    and we really really want to stress to people that if they have a medical emergency that is life threatening or serious, then they still should go to use the NHS, absolutely should.
    And:
    The final causes of mortality and this is a much longer term one:
    The interventions that we have had to put in place for this, have a very big social and economic impact and this is a complex area. There’s a very, very complex intervention, in the short term, between economic and health outcomes; but in the long term, If you increase deprivation for those people who are already more socioeconomically deprived, we KNOW that, there is a very strong link to Ill health. There is a very strong correlation, in every country in the world, between deprivation and or being relatively, socioeconomically deprived and having long term health problems. “

    So these are all ways in which an epidemic, this epidemic, can have an impact:
    And that’s important when we’re thinking about the next phase in every country as it comes out of a lockdown, because every country has got an extremely difficult balancing act..and we all need to be honest about the fact that there are no easy solutions here.

    There are certain things which are absolutely clear:
    The first of which is if we allow the R nought or R to go above one, for any sustained period, it will lead back to exponential growth again and the risk that may people will get the infection and the health system will be overwhelmed; but at the other end of the spectrum, covid 19 is a very long way from finished and eradication is technically impossible for this disease.

    There’s also the complication that, just narrowly from a health perspective, the optimal answer about how you start to remove some of the things involved in lockdowns and other social distancing , may have different impacts depending on whether you’re talking about the direct deaths from covid and indirect deaths through some of the other mechanisms, through other impacts on the health service or the long term socioeconomic effects on individuals…and:

    In addition to health impacts, there are of course important social and economic considerations. So this is going to be a very difficult decision for every society, how they balance the relative impacts of different things but all societies, I think, would agree, that we need to make sure that the R does not go above one, because if not we will go back to a second wave…and the point I made with the flu pandemics is it is entirely plausible for a second wave to actually be more severe than the first if it is not mitigated.”

  42. Came back expecting to see fully half the comments being from Joy.

    Was not disappointed.

  43. Rudolph,
    The responses demonstrated that what the Dr in the video claimed, was not just false, but provably so.
    Apparently that alters nothing.

  44. Clinical features covid 19: *30th April 2020, quote from Chris Whitty.
    See early March where similar, features are described. Chinese medics already pointed out features such as the immune response or cytokine storm, which is not peculiar to Covid.
    There are established methods for managing the clinical picture outlined and Dr’s in the States would not be any more in the dark than any others when it comes to which inputs to choose or try first!

    Then all you need do is wonder why thousands? of Drs and healthcare providers would be giving out dangerous advice. Did they sign up at college to train to be like Scarra’manger?
    ~~~
    The symptoms of mild and early covid are often very non specific. The majority of people who have symptoms (and as I’ve said, some people don’t have any symptoms at all) have a fever or cough and that’s the reason why in the UK, we say,
    [If you have a fever or cough, You should stay at home.] Even once…er…before we started to have the other social distancing measures (and this will need to continue to be the case)
    and also
    [stay at home with your household] (if you’re living with others.)

    Additionally, there can be muscle aches, headaches, shortness of breath, chills, or sore throat, all things which are common for other respiratory infections.

    Something which seems to be…er…particularly prominent in this infection, we’re still looking at this…but I think it looks likely that this is true, is, there seems to be an association with losing taste…or smell.

    Now for most people with mild or early covid, they don’t actually need to seek medical advice; they’ll have a mild or moderate disease and they only need to call for help if they deteriorate. Most of them will recover, either after a very mild illness, or maybe after two or three days in bed with a flu-like…as people normally call it…symptoms and then people improve; but they must, and we really must stress this, self isolate immediately;

    …and then most people will recover within about seven days, they may have a persistent cough which goes on for quite a lot longer than that, it can be a bit annoying for some weeks, but other than that, people with mild disease tend to make a relatively quick and full recovery; but:

    A minority fail to settle and they’re still unwell at a week and may be starting to deteriorate. People can deteriorate before that, but it tends to be after a bit of a delay and they may go on to get respiratory failure requiring, in most cases, oxygen, not in absolutely all of them and in more severe cases they can have other organ failure; and it does look as if, this deterioration which occurs maybe a week after the first symptoms, is actually an immunological reaction. So it’s not necessarily directly from the virus but it’s an immune response to the virus…and that’s important for possible treatment.

    And then: Some of those will go on to have severe or critical disease requiring intensive care or at least high dependency levels of care. They can have a very rapid deterioration but still this is a very early period of understanding of this disease. We’re still evolving, just on the basis of clinical ..ler…studies and people looking and working out what works, how best to manage this. The mortality rates are probably in the uK and most other countries beginning to come down as Drs get better at managing this; just from learning the normal way in which Dr’s learn how to manage a new disease. There’s quite a lot of debate about things like mechanical ventilation, [who are the right people to have mechanical ventilation]
    One thing that’s very striking from this disease is it seems to have a significant risk… increased risk of blood clots, like lung…pulmonary emboli in in the lungs, or indeed stroke and other kinds of clotting.

    Initially we thought the majority of the severe disease would b just in the lungs but a s significant number of people who have ventilation needs also for example, have kidney problems and need renal support. So this can be really a very sever disease and at the extreme end people can be very sick indeed and as we say there is a significant mortality rate albeit a low one.

  45. A minority fail to settle and they’re still unwell at a week and may be starting to deteriorate. People can deteriorate before that, but it tends to be after a bit of a delay and they may go on to get respiratory failure requiring, in most cases, oxygen, not in absolutely all of them and in more severe cases they can have other organ failure; and it does look as if, this deterioration which occurs maybe a week after the first symptoms, is actually an immunological reaction. So it’s not necessarily directly from the virus but it’s an immune response to the virus…and that’s important for possible treatment.

    And then: Some of those will go on to have severe or critical disease requiring intensive care or at least high dependency levels of care.
    *********************************************************************************************

    That sounds like waiting for one’s lips to turn blue

  46. Are you trying to argue?
    Just that lips turn blue?

    Notice Chris does not say,
    “check the mirror and if your lips run blue, give us a call”

    Which was, if you were being consistent, is what the Drs whom you defend, claim/ed.

    The idea of giving out advice in detail to patients is so that they can make informed decisions.

    You ignored paragraph five of the previous quote as well.

  47. So, when advice is measured and given soberly, with necessary caveats, making it clear that it is rare for patients to require admission to hospital; it’s called letting them suffer until it’s too late, to paraphrase.

    When patients are told to take this seriously and the public are asked to act accordingly with regards to available capacity of health care provision, it’s called something like panic, fear, scare mongering, a conspiracy to control the world, drug companies having their wicked way or whatever other out of perspective rubbish.

  48. The DRs I “defend”, I referenced those just to show that McCullough is not alone.

    The DRs I “defend” DID NOT/DO NOT actually believe that’s what DRs told their patients. But in essence that IS the gist of what they might as well have said going by what Witty himself said.

    What is paragraph five? Your sentences and paragraphs as copied are pretty broken up. Can’t tell what you want me to respond to. Nothing interesting leaps out – Tell me what I missed.

    Relistening to McCullough, the first 15-20 minutes sounds like what Witty says … Is Witty the gold standard

  49. Here it is again:
    “The third cause of mortality or morbidity is indirect deaths, either because the health service has had to cancel things and in the Uk to make space for the surge of people who had covid, coming into the NHS, we had to cancel a lot of, or postpone a lot of, non urgent but important things, elective surgery for example, screening, or potentially because people are afraid to come into hospital or don’t want to overwhelm the system and stay at home despite the fact they have heart attacks strokes or other severe causes of mortality…

    and It is very important and we stress this throughout this whole epidemic in the UK to date,
    and we really really want to stress to people that if they have a medical emergency that is life threatening or serious, then they still should go to use the NHS, absolutely should.”

    and everybody here, was told on almost a daily basis.
    Yet, at that stage, along with many other points in time, skeptics united were telling everybody it wasn’t serious! There’s no middle ground here. There is only what is true and what is known, when.
    It is deadly, in more than one aspect. Yet that’s just ignored for obsession about infection morality rate.

  50. glad I’ve got the real john b
    The paragraphs are from the video which has been linked and referenced many times with minute markers.
    I copied them by hand, took hours, thanks for the dismissal

    Paragraph five is the fifth paragraph down in the first quote, where the Dr explains the importance of ATTENDING hospital if in serious emergency as PER USUAL

    The context of THAT explanation was in describing the risk of morality due to other than covid alone.
    This is why I’m calling it epidemic 101
    (Your) Dr McCullough appears not to have a point or a complaint.

    No Chris Whitty is not hte gold standard but it looks like his standards are just fine. He is not complaining about the sky being blue.

  51. “The DRs I “defend” DID NOT/DO NOT actually believe that’s what DRs told their patients. But in essence that IS the gist of what they might as well have said going by what Witty himself said.”

    So, like I said, they’re exaggerating for effect. They know better and knew better.

    “they might have well have” said it!
    If there was a bed space and a member of staff to support each and every patient who tests positive for covid we’d be in another world. That’s not the situation in any country.
    Hence the claim that NO health service anywhere was equipped to cope with this disease back last year.
    It was true. Yet skeptics united…ever the know all, know more than the Dr’s from their superior position of total novice

  52. Joy

    I wasn’t being dismissive … I apologize if that came out … I know about your vision issues

    I was responding to a paragraph in your post dated June 22, 2021 at 9:09 pm

    You just referenced something from your post dated June 21, 2021 at 9:45 am
    You told me I ignored the fifth paragraph … I was confused since I was on your 9:09 pm post

    But your 9:45 am post sounds a lot like what Briggs and all of us have said

    We are well aware of what the “fifth paragraph” is all about … we’ve all said it

    (My) Dr McCullough has plenty of points and complaints (just watch the 40 minute mark)

  53. “My) Dr McCullough has plenty of points and complaints (just watch the 40 minute mark)”
    no.

  54. Joy
    June 22, 2021 at 11:00 pm – thanks for the dismissal

    Joy – June 22, 2021 at 10:29 pm – If there was a bed space and a member of staff to support each and every patient who tests positive for covid we’d be in another world. That’s not the situation in any country.
    —– THAT was the point of McCullough and the other doctors – early treatment – early treatment to prevent or delay hospitalization – early treatments that were quashed

    Joy – June 22, 2021 at 9:09 pm –
    Witty basically says if you get Covid it’ll go away after a week or so
    Or it won’t and then you’ll go to the hospital and die – NOTHING about what to do at home!

    Joy – June 21, 2021 at 9:45 am
    Just about every paragraph is VACUOUS and tells us little to nothing

  55. Additionally

    Joy – June 22, 2021 at 10:29 pm – If there was a bed space and a member of staff to support each and every patient who tests positive for covid we’d be in another world. That’s not the situation in any country.

    You really haven’t paid attention. We “deniers” DO NOT consider (we deny) positive PCR tests for Covid “cases” ergo NOT PATIENTs – but why not provide prophylactic treatments to those “patients” who have tested positive but especially those that present symptoms?

  56. o call the comments vacuous is essentially untrue in its plainest sense.
    The Drs add nothing, was MY point. What they are doing though is reframing how it actually works and how this disease has more than one sting in its tail. It is the nature of the disease and it has been known for well over a year.

    Those who have spent a year obsessing about Infection Fatality Rate for covid; and ‘it’s not that bad’, missed the point then and it looks like they miss it now.

    Contrary to what you so often claim. I haven’t misunderstood.
    What I initially couldn’t credit, was how people here could have things so badly wrong.
    I concluded and still do that this is all about freedom and the concept of public health, which is a toxic subject in the US, ripe for mixers and stirrers.

    Covid is deadly, for reasons outlined in the first quote (not written text, but audio dialogue) hence you didn’t like the paragraphs, as if that matters, oh Mr. “my comments are full of content”

  57. “o call the comments vacuous is essentially untrue in its plainest sense.
    The Drs add nothing, was MY point. What they are doing though is reframing how it actually works and how this disease has more than one sting in its tail. Those who have spent a year obsessing about infection fatality rate for covid; and ‘it’s not that bad’ , have entirely missed the point.
    Contrary to what you so often claim. I haven’t misunderstood, I was there before you and any others who are now copping on that they are opening their eyes.
    Covid is deadly, for reasons outlined in the first quote (not written text, but audio dialogue) hence you didn’t like the paragraphs, as if that matters, oh Mr. “my comments are full of content””
    That is also untrue given many of the comments from your ‘side’ who persistently complain about the exact overstating of the nature of the disease.
    It looks like you’re picking and choosing who’s in your team now!
    There are a variety of conspiracists and theories to match.
    All are wrong.

    Thee is opportunism and now, it looks, like it’s on both ‘sides’.

  58. Re: PCR tests:
    “There’s only one thing worse than NO test and that’s a BAD test. “
    Quoted daily, early on in the pandemic when MSM were throwing stones at the
    Lack of available tests.
    The US took the wrong path on testing, said so a year ago or more, now on this site.

    You don’t need a test to treat patients though if they are in need of medical help of any kind.
    That’s a false perception.
    “You treat what you find”, whoever you are in whatever medical fields.

  59. Here’s another example of reframing of purpose of the lecture:

    Joy – June 22, 2021 at 9:09 pm –
    Witty basically says if you get Covid it’ll go away after a week or so
    Or it won’t and then you’ll go to the hospital and die – NOTHING about what to do at home!”

    1 The lecture is a broad overview as posted many times, about the facts of the disease and the state of knowledge at the time. It is just one example of what was said and known at the time. Are you really asking me to go and find other proof that people were told how to mannage their symptoms at home?
    Jenny Harries spoke a lot about this, it was mostly her, that initially explained what to expect, how to look after children with symptoms etc, when to look for help.
    2
    what is it you would have said, on that date? at that time?

    Treatment is symptomatic, as with any other respiratory disease.
    If you presented to hospital as was implied by the Dr,
    We’re basically telling people to go home and so forth…”
    At that stage any specific advice is given to patients on an individual basis.

    How do you manage colds and flu at home?
    If you can’t manage, you go to hospital. That’s the point.

  60. Joy

    1) I present flu-like symptoms and call Dr Witty, what does he tell me?

    2) I test positive for Covid and present flu-like symptoms. I call Dr Witty, what does he tell me?

    3) I go in to see Dr Witty and he thinks I MIGHT have Covid, I’m not that old and relatively healthy, what does he do for me?

    4) I go in to see Dr Witty and he thinks I MIGHT have Covid, I’m somewhat old and have some condition on the side, what does Dr Witty do for me?

    According to Dr McCullough, 80% of US doctors answer 1) Wait and see 2) Wait and see 3) Wait and see 4) Hospital or Wait and see – Because in the US, according to McCullough, anything they prescribe (especially off-label medications) will a) get them in trouble with their boards, b) likely won’t get filled by the pharmacy, or c) both (especially if the pharmacist reports them)

    The people I linked you to confirmed McCullough, I’m certain there are many others
    Based solely on the Information you’ve presented by Dr Witty, what would Witty do?

  61. Oh! so not based on reality of your actually presenting to him?
    Just based on the vacuous text?

    Assuming you don’t require any inpatient treatment?
    Just test positive? with a sniffle or a cough?

    If you’re medically stable, you will be given a prescription or advised to use over the counter medications to reduce fever or aches and pains. The potential symptoms will be described I detail and you will be told that if at any stage your symptoms become unmanageable, not to hesitate to attend A and E.
    If Shortness of breath, for example, occurs suddenly and without emersion, you must attend for reassessment or admission to hospital.

    How the US organises it’s drugs life is another story.
    incidentally, if it’s anti malarial which interest you, they’re available without prescription, last time I checked, when I wen t to India and I didn’t take them.

    Now, some months later, there are drugs in use which are immune modifying medicines such as those used for rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune disorders.

    Theirs thing any clinician with experience treatment of inflammatory diseases would consider?
    The usual list for autoimmune diseases.
    Nothing particularly innovative there.
    Same for Dexamethazone, despite some of the tail wagging from the English side about being first with the study.
    The indication for treatment is obvious to any clinical member of staff with half a mind to think

    Sometimes it is easy to make things sound complex when they are not and easy when they aren’t.
    Watch out, there’s another quote coming, from Whitty!

  62. Joy – June 23, 2021 at 1:40 pm

    1 The lecture is a broad overview as posted many times, about the facts of the disease and the state of knowledge at the time.
    Joy – I get that, the lecture is from April 30th, 2020 – we knew 95% of what the “lecture” tells us by mid to late February after the “Diamond Princess”

    How do you manage colds and flu at home?
    If you can’t manage, you go to hospital. That’s the point.

    But THAT IS the point – THAT’s McCullough’s point – AND it’s YOUR point Joy, Covid is not the cold or flu!
    Dr. McCullough even mentioned that some flu treatments have no effect on Covid because Covid transports into the blood stream, flu treatments can’t follow.

    Hydroxychloroquine is for a blood borne disease (it’s BEST use is as a prophylactic)
    I mentioned Ivermectin to my wife – she said Oh Yeah! We (Vet People) give that to dogs for heartworm
    Another treatment for bloodborne problems

    McCollough wanted something, anything to prevent hospitalization because for many it was too late.

    Joy, I really think you have a Trump/Briggs problem. whatever they say or support …

  63. Joy – June 23, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    How the US organises it’s drugs life is another story.
    incidentally, if it’s anti malarial which interest you, they’re available without prescription, last time I checked, when I wen t to India and I didn’t take them.

    Now, some months later, there are drugs in use which are immune modifying medicines such as those used for rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune disorders.
    Incidentally one of the off-label uses of hydroxycloroquine is Lupus)

    Here’s an example of how US organizes its drugs:
    https://www.indiawest.com/news/india/fda-warns-that-over-the-counter-hydroxychloroquine-pills-could-cause-death/article_fd6565d8-8655-11ea-a51d-6bd2577942eb.html

    FDA Warns That Over-the-Counter Hydroxychloroquine Pills Could Cause Death
    IANS Apr 24, 2020

  64. Yes, I treated patients with lupus and diagnosed forward referral
    Not just. a pretty face
    Thanks for the links on how america organises itself
    It’s an education on how not to do thing. Evidently if I am to believe what I read here

    However, the human body doesn’t alter the world over. Whatever drug companies, newspapers, commentators, governments, or McCullough and Faudci say
    Good evening

  65. Joy
    June 23, 2021 at 2:58 pm

    Totally agree

    There ain’t no good guy … There ain’t no bad guy … There’s only you and me and I’m not sure we even disagree

    (I musta snuck john b somewhere sometime and didn’t know it until today)

  66. Spare the soft soap John, it’s patronising and in poor spirit
    I don’t have a Briggs /Trump problem. You clearly do, in feeling the need to constantly defend him or some other sense of affiliation.
    Trump? you clearly haven’t been reading all that many of my comments.
    I was defending him when it was very unfashionable prior to his first nomination and then election.
    When all the posing was going on about how much better THEY were than he.
    So if you think I take an opposing view to Trump just because? You’ve not been reading.
    Maybe it’s useful to give that impression to the unkind commenters, who take everything on faith.

    Who knows, but you certainly know how to stir trouble.
    I’m not part of the group. Im an observer, remember?

    Feel free to ignore and move along. I clearly don’t know you from Adam.

  67. John B ==> June 15th 2020 at 11:15 am
    “Bernard
    Doing so would also demonstrate that Covid was over with or without a vaccine …”
    Joy ==> June 16th 2021 at 9:05 am
    “Doing so would also demonstrate that Covid was over with OR without a vaccine …’???” (KEY Question)

    [If your only source is the one that’s claimed to be dubious:?Why do you draw any conclusions from it at all?
    It’s like choosing a bible to disagree with all the live long day?You would call such a person insane or at least dim
    I put this to JohnBy ONLY because he’s one of the last chances of reasonable , credible answer. A response that isn’t a fallacy from the start. Not that others aren’t capable, but the probability is very low based in historical data with a fairly high degree of certainty]”
    Incidentally: the word (only could be read ‘simply’, or ‘just’.

    John B () June 16th 2021 at 10:39 am
    “Joy
    Let me get back to you when I have more time”
    Which was taken as a comedy cop out )

    ==>[The video with the REAL front line physician. All the others from whom we’ve been hearing for over a year? Dozens of countries? “Skip it!!” They’re all stupid]

    John ==>June 17th at 9:41
    Anecdotal report Re planned deliberate default malpractice due to FDA rules, ==> to ulterior motives:

    Markers about letting patients’ ‘lips go blue’, with a corroborating video of another man saying similar and blaming a certain authority for having nefarious motives

    Joy ==>June 18th 2021 at 10:18 am
    “SAGE were already meeting from mid January. The US military were on the case, whatever McCullough says.
    Unless the Navy Sgts and Admirals were playing a dressing up game?”

    Now, the worst aspects of the crisis is being used to push propaganda about a grand conspiracy

    If that’s not the actual claim it smells like that’s the team spirit

    If there’s ever a proof that the written law kills then it’s in the US FDA’s rules.
    Still doesn’t mean it is done on purpose,, just a default problem. Needed more Trump to give executive permissions. There was too much noise, too many chiefs, not enough Indians. Too many know it alls.

    Why couldn’t the Dr’s just warn the patients with written signed information about what is and what is not authorised? Dated and signed bye patient? If he’s so sure. He can’t be done for telling the truth about efficacy.
    I expect, truth is, he Wasn’t that sure. Hindsight makes things seem different

  68. “My friends, I’m going to say something that will seem, to a few of you, harsh. People on the right are posting images and videos of sufferers of coronavirus and saying “This is why we need to take this as seriously as we do.”
    This is equivalent to posting pictures of “migrant” kids washed on up on shore and saying “This is why we need open borders”. Which people on the right wisely condemned.
    God bless everybody who gets this dread disease, and Godspeed to those who succumb. But we cannot make policy based on sad pictures”

    WMBriggs, March 24th 2020

    https://wmbriggs.com/post/29886/?doing_wp_cron=1624564572.3492739200592041015625

    What about sad Drs on well produced videos?

  69. But we cannot make policy based on sad pictures …

    … what policy was the sad doctor promoting?

  70. If I’m to believe you, ‘clinical policy’? over riding normal clinical reasoning and responsibility.
    Autonomy, in other words.

    The Dr is responsible. Other medial Staff charged with making decisions are responsible for those decisions.
    They don’t get to claim:
    “I was just following orders”

    Every junior learns this. Don’t do as you’re ‘told’, if what you’e told is unsafe or wrong.
    This prevents mass error on a large scale.

    A few of friends of mine worked in the US, in the big heart hospital in Boston, in one instance.
    She reported that it was like being a hairdresser. Everything had to be done under orders.
    In the UK, she was superintendent respiratory physiotherapist at Barts and had full autonomy.

    so this Dr is experiencing the same thing, apparently.
    In my own time I’ve been advised to do certain things in a given situation and have done otherwise. Never by a Dr, but by “policy”
    I always did the right thing but make sure you know what is the truth.

    I find this video suspicious in any event. It looks and smells like propaganda.
    Being a lecturer in clinical matters without being a current clinician is not a great way of discovering best practice.
    The front line Dr has more clout.
    The FDA panelist was a victim of his own success
    Just a few thoughts but I am going away for a while

  71. Joy June 24, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    You keep making his points your points – yes, I cringed when he started choking up. Maybe they should have reshot that, but why? He dealt with his father an alzheimer patient and stricken with Covid for how long? He dealt with a friend and his wife. Friend lived. Wife died.

    My wife’s sister called her the other day, practically bawling. Their mother is an alzheimer and the sister has been trying to keep it together since last year. My wife is meeting them half way to pick up mom and bring her here to stay with us.

    When sister called, my wife and a neighbor were driving and my wife’s phone was coming over the car speaker. My wife told her sister she wasn’t alone and her sister didn’t care she just cried. Cringe? You tell me

    Remember, this wasn’t the Doctor’s first attempt to tell his story. And Dr. Twitter and Dr. Facebook tried to shut him up. Brad Tittle linked an interview with another doctor who mentioned and applauded Dr McCullough’s attempt.

    Dr McCullough’s point was that none of the doctors advising Trump or anyone else were FRONT LINE doctors and 80% of the front line doctors caved.

    Brad Tittle’s Dr blamed the attitude of hospitals, medical associations and there doctors on Obama Care. Though I liked Brad’s doctor and his interview, he probably had more of a policy axe to grind than McCullough.

    An earlier post I made I meant to say that Briggs seems to affect you like Trump affects other people

  72. Joy

    with everything you’ve posted, I tried to answer the ones I found important … you had like 3 or 4 posts in a row when I said I’d get back to you … and I addressed mostly about Witty

    If THIS is what you found most important for me to answer:
    “Doing so would also demonstrate that Covid was over with OR without a vaccine …’???
    If your only source is the one that’s claimed to be dubious:
    Why do you draw any conclusions from it at all?

    I’ll try to answer but the “dubious source” you seem to be referring to is CDC?
    I’ve never said CDC was dubious. What I HAVE said is they reassess the data long after it’s over. (ex: there original guess for 2017/2018 was 80,000 deaths, nine months later, they adjusted it to 60,000. But one can still use it or worldometer or john hopkins as a proxy to see how it compares to the spanish flu.

    (Speaking of which, in the last decade or so “Science” people have lowered the estimated Worldwide death figure from 20 to 50 Million down to 2 to 4 Million. (They weren’t about to touch the 670,000+ for US)

  73. No time to reply, genuinely but have read your responses.

    You still miss the point and claim that these Drs are being original when the entire point is that they are just repeating what “mainstream” wisdom has said, forget faudci and Cuomo brothers:
    If he is there to talk about how he feels, I don’t have a problem with that at all. I’m the. one defending that, normally.

    However he is complaining, essentially, that the covid virus is a demon. I chose the video from 30th April as the video, I thought, would be familiar. There are earlier sessions, recorded, where matters with the virus are discussed and potential “treatment” and therapy is explained and discussed, for the very understanding of the public.

    See 05th March select committee with whitty and Jenny Harries to government, see the complete review, as is the case after all epidemics where questions can be answered as searching as you like.

    See Chinese Drs giving public evidence to the world in conference on a stage about their clinical findings with patients. They are the same. I was listening.

    This Dr seems to think Italy was the place to go for information. Was on of my main points, and which shows a lack of clear reasoning about the chronology of this epidemic. Italy failed to protect their service and people died at home because there were not enough beds. It didn’t happen here at any stage. Italy had severn times the number of ITU beds than the UK, prior to this epidemic.

    Clearly we already manage patients differently, that is not controversial. There are always discussions about when is right to ventilate. (Covid threw this question up in sharp relief, a separate matter to the lips turning blue issue.)
    That fact was first known to my ears in January when the ChineseDrs described the symptoms and the effects on outcomes.
    It was clear that it was the immune response, causing sudden onset of potentially lethal clotting.

    Regarding the only remaining complaint, it seems, treatment?
    I can refer you back to the same lecture at Gresham college or the fifth of March select committee meeting where this is discussed in more and less detail respectively.

    See Public health England for free advice, see public data published by all concerned about the progress of management of this disease. That every jot and tittle is disbelieved is all I need to know. If you are affiliated to the notion that your wuthorities are out to kill you then I suggest the problem, is with whoever thinks that is so.

    The Chinese have things to hide. medical staff do not.
    As for my issue with Briggs, it’s always clear what that is. Chinese Drs put patients on ventilators because they coughed, for one, There are thousands and they are almost always generated entirely to attract comment. If you would prefer an echo chamber?

    So in short it is Briggs and the minder of this Dr’s video, who are reframing the events as if something is a big reveal. FDA have long been problematic. They are an empire of their own! Trump was on to them straight away.
    FDA blocked churlishly, and to the detriment of US scientific discovery, a world beating piece of equipment which late had been bought under a different company name. They are past their useful purpose when it comes to American interests, let alone those of us selling products to the US.

  74. That was (not) “Chinese”
    “Drs being put on ventilation because they coughed’ but ‘drs” in general.
    ‘Chinese’ crept in due to bad editing, not relevant to the complaint about Briggs’ exaggerations.

  75. Joy June 25, 2021 at 11:17 am No time to reply, genuinely but have read your responses.

    I understand

    And I understand how you feel about Briggs
    I believe he may have oversold this but I don’t think it was sold as a “BIG REVAL”
    (Briggs liked 1:07:00 – I liked everything before)

    FDA part and parcel off the Deep State – the only thing they cooperated with on
    (and I think they snookered him) was the “Fast Track” to the vaccine.

    His story was a sad story … both personally … and sadness taken from a professional observation

    Your own people had firsthand experience (and that was without a virus crisis) with what he eventually observed during a crisis and witness first hand the damage done to doctors that didn’t toe the line

  76. JohnB
    Thank you for the considered response. Will take a look at the above link.

    A “big reveal”, is synonymous with the phrase: “Blows the lid Off Of’

    That is one initial criticism but it indicates the propagandistic style and or the bleeding, leading kind of headline used by tabloids. The video title is of a similar mentality I.e. Sensational.

    Similarly the YouTube clip who’s title includes the necessarily alarmist lips turning blue remark.

    That kind of resentment or frustration, spread to potential patients or the public in general. Even if it were true, which it isn’t, helps nobody.

    Re “doing no harm’
    On an individual basis the Drs have to look after themselves and THEIR patients.
    They have to live with their own consciences. (All those who’s faith allows them to have a trustable one)

    Anyway, they have no complaint on a personal basis. None more than any Dr from anywhere else where the service became overwhelmed. That is the nature of epidemics in full flight.
    The idea is to prevent that situation by a variety of means only one of which is development of treatment. All of the various battle fronts play their part in slowing rates of and reducing death.

    Safety of any new therapy or treatment is considered with regards to the risk benefit ratio given the information at the time. As you know, this was changing on a daily and weekly basis. Some are even trying to imply that what they know now was known then. In other instances, the opposite is true. So chronology is important.

    For Ebola, there was little to lose and everything to gain in taking risks.
    This was not the same situation in this epidemic, I refer you to early statements to this effect_ should you think This is just my own opinion. ]

    Given the acknowledged, (not denied) relatively low mortality rate, it was not considered appropriate to take the same kinds of risk which were taken during the deadly ebola crisis, for example, when infection pretty much meant death.

    “Your own people had firsthand experience (and that was without a virus crisis) with what he eventually observed during a crisis and witness first hand the damage done to doctors that didn’t toe the line”

    Not sure to what you’re referring. Sounds like your’e thinking of a specific situation.

    I have a working knowledge of the NHS and it’s faults, it’s strengths/weaknesses. Similarly private based medicine. They do have to be managed administratively and getting that balance right has been a battle ever since they did away with the old, non business oriented methods of administration. Some of those matters stem back to well before covid and before my time in health care. Healthcare is a money pit, always will be. Ethics/perfection is always in tension with monetary interests. That’s from an idealist perspective.

    I see much of the blame gaming that is going on, outside of stark criminality or negligence to be little more than what happens during any crisis or war.

  77. Thought that might happen with the Italics, will try again, quotes are often confusing and capitals sound like shouting.

  78. John b
    Re: the video
    “weaponising professional practice license”
    Couldn’t agree more with what the man is saying.

    It’s good that people take an active interest in these things. Some activism is worthwhile.
    Winston the westie is a mud magnet. Ii noticed Winston has a very clean new looking handle on his lead but the man has holes in his knees. twas always thus. When they get like that they’re better as shorts, or dusters.

  79. Joy
    July 2, 2021 at 9:32 pm
    Regarding: “Your own people had firsthand experience (and that was without a virus crisis) with what he eventually observed during a crisis and witness first hand the damage done to doctors that didn’t toe the line”
    ,,,followed by …
    Not sure to what you’re referring. Sounds like your’e thinking of a specific situation.
    I was referring to…

    Joy
    June 24, 2021 at 5:19 pm
    A few of friends of mine worked in the US, in the big heart hospital in Boston, in one instance.
    She reported that it was like being a hairdresser. Everything had to be done under orders.

  80. John b thank you for the clarification

    They were describing boredom and frustration more than anything to do with safety.
    It certainly uses up manpower resources if only one person in a team can make a decision.
    It would certainly show up the weakness. However this epidemic has done that everywhere in every country.

    For the individual, this epidemic is over with or without a vaccine.
    For health administrators and in reality, it is over because of the vaccine.
    Where over means living under less restrictions and minimal disruption to medical provision.

    To medical staff and care staff, respiratory diseases are always a daily reality. Covid is just one more.
    As I said months ago, last year to Dean Ericson,
    people can go about their lives blissfully unaware as they usually are.

  81. Joy July 4, 2021 at 4:43 pm
    They were describing boredom and frustration more than anything to do with safety.
    It certainly uses up manpower resources if only one person in a team can make a decision.

    You’ve greatly confirmed a lot with that statement
    Bored and frustrated and wasted (…uses up manpower resources…) medical staff IS a safety issue in a crisis.

    … show up the weakness … this epidemic has done that everywhere in every country.

    Yet despite the US and the UK’s great strengths in everything else, the hamstringing of Doctor’s options by their administrators, by their “Associations” and by government bureaucracy (at least in the US) seems to be a major discriminator. I’ll leave it to you to figure out what happened in the UK (maybe resources were a major burden there …)

  82. Joy July 2, 2021 at 9:32 pm

    Safety of any new therapy or treatment is considered with regards to the risk benefit ratio given the information at the time. As you know, this was changing on a daily and weekly basis. Some are even trying to imply that what they know now was known then. In other instances, the opposite is true. So chronology is important. …
    Given the acknowledged, (not denied) relatively low mortality rate, it was not considered appropriate to take the same kinds of risk which were taken during the deadly ebola crisis, for example, when infection pretty much meant death.

    chronology is important … very much so … and even more telling when you consider the chronology of a 70+ year medicinal (at one time “off-label”) use for lupus
    https://www.lupus.org/resources/drug-spotlight-on-hydroxychloroquine
    https://www.the-rheumatologist.org/article/the-history-of-treating-lupus-with-hydroxychloroquine/

    And remember the “grating” thing about McCullough’s video was NOT that HCQ was “sure fire” and dismissed, but that an actual clinical trial set up to actually study and confirm HCQ potential as a Covid treatment was SHUTDOWN based on a totally fabricated “PEER-REVIEWED” paper! THAT was the travesty!

    Then there’s this bit:

    Michelle Petri, MD, MPH, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Lupus Center and a professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Baltimore, elaborates on the discovery of the drug’s use in inflammatory conditions. “The military personnel who had rheumatoid arthritis and lupus felt much better when they were taking the malaria medicine and then wanted to continue it when they left the military,” she explains. “It’s almost a discovery made accidentally, as so many medical discoveries are. It’s a nice story of physicians listening to their patients.”

    physicians listening to their patients. In the days of Medical and Government bureaucracies, is that possible?

    and from above …

    The only FDA approved treatment for COVID-19 is the antiviral drug remdesivir (Veklury®). Remdesivir was approved for patients over 12 years old and weighing at least 88 pounds who are hospitalized with COVID-19.

    The ONLY approved treatment is after you’re in the hospital when it’s likely too late…?

  83. About chronology …

    that bogus paper was put out with in a month of Trump expressing hope for it AND just in time to STOP any other study on the subject in it’s tracks

    more than chronology IS IMPORTANT HERE

  84. Wow, John b, you found that! best start taking it then

    meanwhile, the NHS and PHE position differs from yours.
    It is neutral on the effectiveness of quinine sulphate or HCL, even vitamin D.

    Except to say that vitamin supplements help to repeat the body’s system and ensure that immunity is optimised.

    At no stage were pope banned form taking supplements and those found on blood test to lack vitamin D are prescribe it by high weekly doses and encouraged to self manage with daily doses of the same.

    So what you’re angry about is that the system isn’t working how you would prefer, in your country.
    Regarding Trump?
    Yes, he was fed a lot of bad information by the progressives. I also think, which you will never agree, that he took on the attitude of the far right in such a way which did not help, but hindered his cause. The far right were wrong about quite a few things and the left took advantage to make him look rather silly, badly informed, mean or a variety of whatever they wanted to show at the time. So he was fed and used by both sides.
    Should’ve stuck to the navy, and outside sources, for his information.

  85. Joy S?

    You need a Sarcasm Indicator as well 😉

    Yes the right were extremely embarrassing playing right into the left

    “make him look rather silly, badly informed, mean or a variety of whatever they wanted to show”
    They often did that by misquoting, misconstruing things he said
    Sometimes outright gaslighting the public saying he said exactly the opposite of what he said

    I’ve been taking Vitamin D 2000-5000 IU since I got sicker than a dog back in 2014

    The system is the system

  86. Re: The system is the system

    I really don’t have a preference for how it should work

    I would prefer that it would work

    You yourself said that our system is broke

    You (or your friends) saw it as inefficient and wasteful but then you tell me that’s not a safety issue

    Those are incongruous thoughts … inefficiencies and wastefulness made this crisis what it was …
    (New York is a prime example – more than enough hospital capacity was available and was not utilized and even more people were put in harms way because GOD-CUOMO was ostensibly in charge of New York’s hospital system) If tyher is ANGER in me, THAT is where my anger lies)

    It is neutral on the effectiveness of quinine sulphate or HCL, even vitamin D.

    Except to say that vitamin supplements help to repeat the body’s system and ensure that immunity is optimised.

    The neutrality on Vitamin D is incongruous with they say about it

    I don’t have an opinion on HCL so it can’t be different from NHS or PHE

  87. John Bs
    No sarcasm required, you understood the point.
    Correction of two important typos:

    The pope has no business telling people what to take…capitalised corrections. (There may have been others)
    “meanwhile, the NHS and PHE position differs from yours.?It is neutral on the effectiveness of quinine sulphate or HCL, even vitamin D.
    Except to say that vitamin supplements help to REPLETE the body’s system and ensure that immunity is optimised.
    At no stage were PEOPLE banned form taking supplements and those found on blood test to lack vitamin D are prescribe it by high weekly doses and encouraged to self manage with daily doses of the same.”

    Nothing incongruous in what I’m saying. I’m telling it as it is, or was.
    I’m also making the point that As and when it suits, the conspiracist will use any kind of information or situation to try to make a story or join the dots.

    Re Vit D, you only need take it if you’re measured levels are low. Like oil in the car, once you’ve got enough you can have too much of a good thing. Same for all these organic and mineral substances which ar so fashionable.

    Some have difficulty absorbing or storing, some have unhealthier or less optimal
    natural stores of such substances due to a variety fo factors.
    There’s no secrets or intrigue about vitamins.

    Re the system? Is it the system you’re on about or that you think the government’s out to kill you?
    Only you seem a bit swimmy aboutie on that point.

  88. Joy

    Thanks – I never saw anything about the Pope’s recommendation (I read “people” as you intended)

    I live where we only have sunshine well under half (closer to a quarter of the time). I also work indoors.
    My wife in the past has been prescribe 10000 units so I shoot for 2-5000 units (don’t think that’s overboard)

    When I did live in sunnier climes and spent time out of doors, I tend to brown, so the 2000 would not be overdoing it there and then. I thought the Indonesia study included people who had levels of D above what were natural, but maybe not – March 2 and April 24, 2020

    For those hospitalized in Indonesia with Covid 85% of those who died had preexisting conditions (undefined)
    Just under half (49.7%) of cases had normal vitamin D status, and only 4% of them died.
    Just over a quarter (27%) had insufficient vitamin D status, and most of them (88%) died. Just under a quarter (23%) had deficient vitamin D status, and almost all of them (99%) died.

    Come on. I don’t think the Governments out to kill me, doesn’t give two figs about me, the government doesn’t give two figs about anybody. The government only cares about itself … Only about its own power, power at whatever level and is unwilling to share … to hold and increase that power claims all successes … denies complicity or fault in all failures. Cuomo may very well survive all this.

  89. “My wife in the past has been prescribe 10000 units so I shoot for 2-5000 units (don’t think that’s overboard)”
    Same here and probably for the same reasons but JOHNBY, YOU don’t need all that vitamin D!

    I think you’d start feeling sick (English meaning nauseous) if you really took too much
    “I shoot for…” very funny.
    What always interested me is the different
    “recommended daily alloweence’
    or
    “recommended daily intake”
    When I studied DS the Americans always “needed’ tonnes more vitamins that us Brits!
    The Eu differs from the US again,
    So it’s not an easy thing to measure as a RULE. Like all medicine, it is inexact.
    fifteen minutes of sunshine, normal daylight, not burning sun, is enough to help your body synthesise what it needs.
    In India and Indonesia, the women in particular do not expose their skin and so they suffer even in western countries if they choose to continue ‘covering up’ arms and shins, neck etc.
    Don’t get neurotic about vitamin D. The reasons for high dose prescription is to catch up as quickly as possible.
    Nothing to do with needing to take high doses. Small daily dose is adequate unless your blood tests show otherwise.
    If you bleed nearly to death on a regular basis you might find all your liver stores totally empty.
    That kind of thing doesn’t happen to Johnbys.

  90. Joy
    July 8, 2021 at 12:46 pm

    fifteen minutes of sunshine, normal daylight, not burning sun, is enough to help your body synthesise what it needs.

    57% of our days are heavy clouds – zero sunshine

    85% of our days are cloudy

    Less than 55 days a year are considered sunny

    Doctors bring up our Vitamin D intake

  91. Johnny,
    Normal daylight, not sunny, cloudless days. All seasons count.
    Just daylight. That’s all it takes.
    In England a gain the clouds for a second is called sunshine!
    Your weather can’t be cloudier than ours.
    You hardly live in the Arctic circle. THEY have fewer hours of sunlight.

  92. You hardly live in the Arctic circle. THEY have fewer hours of sunlight.

    Depends on the time of year

    So maybe the seasonal component of colds and flu is due to daylight rather than actual weather

  93. John By
    It’s as I described, you are pushing conspiracy. Just listened to the video you call dispassionate! It’s monotonic, I’ll give you that, and boring, but…

    ““Hydroxycloroquinte and its friends”

    Counting the number of times a paper is downloaded in a political epidemic coupled with a respiratory one is not a measure of goodness of a paper’s validity.

    “So the Drs have been using the combinations” concoction, according to this dispassionate cancer Dr. That is at odds with the claims made by the Drs we discussed above who said they were by default disallowed to use treatment which they knew would help their patients or at least do them no harm. So which was it? In America? Which one is telling the truth?

    Perhaps some in America are realising the quality of the FDA and that it is not the gold standard they claim on CNN and etc.

    A couple of more points about what he said:
    Outpatient disease is NOT totally different from inpatient disease.
    He is exaggerating. The disease is the same.
    If he wants to be scientific about it one would think he’d be more careful about his wording.

    He is referring to the stage of the disease in patients who have been admitted and the clinical features which are present at that time. This differs from those absent or milder and less complex
    Features displayed more commonly by patients who are not admitted to hospital.

    He does not at all sound dispassionate. He sounds very passionate, in fact and admits anger.

    Whether he’s right or wrong about the conspiracy, the malaria drug has been shown to be neutral in its effect on the disease.

    As for zinc, like other minerals, patients, often men, who suffer from a deficiency, the can only benefit in some way by supplying them from with what they need even without an infection.

    As I listen ,the man becomes more and more wound up, “my field of epidemiology”. Which is not what he says at the beginning either.

    We had less hysteria over here and it was later shown that it makes no difference, as far as I know, unless something has changed since last it was under inspection by chief medical officers.

    Stopped listing after twenty minutes.
    He is spewing a list and is giving Dr Faudci a good run for his money when it comes to coherence.
    Much of what he says is not even debatable. Which is a waste of time.

    He’s telling lay people who already think there’s a conspiracy, what they want to hear. I let it run on past twenty minutes while typing and he started on about, words to the effect:
    ‘they must be trying to hid something since they’re pushing back against that drug more than any other”
    Maybe they did many things but it isn’t clear the drug he favours makes any difference.

  94. It has to do with people staying indoors. Just as in heat waves in the US, people stay indoors and spread virus. People don’t suffer Vitamins-insufficiency just because it’s winter, to a level that affects your health unless your levels are already depleted, or problematically low. It is the winter, as you know, when the bugs are more about irrespective of the Bit D status they find when they land on your epithelial cells.

    Sunlight, even daylight kills the bug, as you know. The higher the UV, the harder it is for bugs to survive.
    They can be kept at low temperatures, though.

  95. clarification:
    RE zinc:
    Like other minerals, patients, often men, suffer from a deficiency.
    They can only benefit in some way, by supplementing, even without an infection.

  96. clarification:
    RE zinc:
    Like other minerals, patients, often men over a certain age, suffer from a deficiency.
    They can only benefit in some way, by supplementing, even without an infection.

  97. This is all there is left to say now:
    https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/covid-19

    1:13 minutes.
    Chirs’s take on the first publication of the study into high and low dose chloroquine.
    He said it is important that we keep studying this.
    ~~~
    1:04, drug treatments are discussed in their various sections and see the table which shows what was on the table for consideration back then.

    The important points he is making is that we already have/had powerful drugs such as steroids and those used in inflammatory, rheumatoid or transplant patients.
    ~~~
    1 hour :
    Testing and usefulness for individual indication.

    Lastly, if people are claiming, all day long that they want vaccines to be developed in a proper and scientifically rigorous way, then they are hardly being consistent when expecting drugs and at the time, tests, to be rushed to market or used regardless.

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