Chauvin Sacrificed To What End?

I disagree with idea that a manslaughter conviction was justified, but as a civilized human being, I understand why some people do think it was (like @Jan Van) and I am willing to accept that outcome as a legitimate result of the legal process.

But my major concern in all of this is that as a policeman, unless it could be proven that he was not following procedure, which to my eye was alleged but not proven, there’s no way any of this could rise to murder. To say that he was following procedure but was negligent is reasonable.

To say that he had the mens rea and intent to meet a murder definition is absurd. He did as he was trained and the death was an accident. There is no “there” there, so to speak. It cannot be murder under the accepted definition of the term. If it is, then every procedurally compliant police interaction that ever occurs is a murder charge just waiting to happen if there is a loss of life.

Charging him with murder was just blood being thrown to the mob, and the quick conviction on such was so transparently sacrificial, that I suspect that the appeals court will eventually throw those convictions out and leave him with the manslaughter conviction that he had already agreed to before the politicians rejected it in favor of placating the mob.

I also wanted to say that not only was the jury intimidated, the judge was too. There was no way that judge was ever going to allow the trial to end on anything just a jury verdict that would deflect blame on him. The judge should have been sequestered too, by the looks of it.

What I want to know is what skin the Pittsburg Penguins CEO had in this “game”

I could see the Dallas Stars nee Minnesota North Stars weighing in but …

Holy let’s have a pile on Batman

@(JR Ewing)

|”I disagree with idea that a manslaughter conviction was justified, but as a civilized human being, I understand why some people do think it was (like @Jan Van) and I am willing to accept that outcome as a legitimate result of the legal process.”||

—When I use the word “justified” it applies in the sense that each of the specific statutory elements of the crime(s) charged were proven beyond a reasonable doubt to the minds of the jury based on the evidence admitted to them by the court during the trial. I don’t mean “justified” in the sense that JUSTICE WAS DONE in some philosophical sense. This is a distinction with an important (critical) difference. I saw what evidence there was and a reasonable mind could agree with the jury (or not).

—As I stated “I don’t like” (the verdict) – but I wasn’t a juror.
–
–Chauvin had Qualified Immunity (as a Peace Officer) for his acts – which I believe should have completely shielded him from both Murder charges (both politically charged and essentially wrong). But, that is a problem with The LAW in MINNESOTA – and not with the Judge or this Trial.

||”To say that he had the mens rea and intent to meet a murder definition is absurd.”||

I wholeheartedly agree – but that is the absurdity of the CRIMINAL CODE OF MINNESOTA. Lawyers call this “supplied intent” as opposed to “mental intent”. It has a place in true Felony Murder – perhaps, maybe, in some instances.

||I suspect that the appeals court will eventually throw those convictions out and leave him with the manslaughter conviction that he had already agreed to before the politicians rejected it in favor of placating the mob.||

—The appeals court CAN possibly quash the 3rd Degree Murder conviction based on some technical case precedent. I wouldn’t expect it though.

–The STATE appeals court CANNOT quash the 2nd Degree Murder conviction – but as this was applied to a Peace Officer it is beyond the pale of reason IMO. Nevertheless it will stand. There may be some dispute up in the higher ether of the appellate intelligentia – but fundamentally – NO WAY

–Ultimately the Judge has sentencing control (not the Jury and not the State). Chauvin “technically” exceeded the Reasonable Officer standard established by Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386 (1989). This is a jury determination – I disagree with the JURY – but I was not on THE JURY and the matter is up to their unique judgment under our system.

—Of course this entire trial was POLITICAL THEATER IN EXTREMIS. But – it was still in the dry sense, a trial conducted under the rule of law by an impartial Judge. All trials are imperfect and full of irregularities. This was a Fair Trial (some are not). Whether Justice was served is an entirely different handful of nuts. Candace Owens is entitled to her opinion – but it would be at odds with the Judge presiding over this case whose professional reputation is unimpeachable. He did his job under immense pressure from nefarious buffoons in other branches of government and their pals in our MIND CONTROL REVOLUTIONARY MEDIA.

ummm, well, you know, if Chauvin had just acted with a bit of professionalism none of this would have happened.

yes, I know, Floyd wasn’t a model citizen.

we can’t help that.

what we can help is whether we have model policemen.

Chauvin was not, clearly (something over a dozen misconduct complaints in his career?).

Was Floyd a bad guy? Was Chauvin a racist? Who knows? Who cares?

At that moment Chauvin was incredibly stupid and arrogant.

Get rid of cops like Chauvin and you’ll do more to put a stop to this theatre than anything else.

“Get rid of cops like Chauvin and you’ll do more to put a stop to this theatre than anything else.”

No, I really don’t think so.

To be honest, I couldn’t work up any interest in the original event or this trial. As an engineer, I live and breathe root cause analysis. If you take the time to collect data and assess it honestly, you aren’t going to start with bar #11 on the Pareto chart and expect to make any headway. In fact, by ignoring bars #1 thru #10, there’s a good chance you will make the problem worse. Do black lives matter? If you choose to ignore threats #1 thru #10 to black lives, and focus solely on #11, you are effectively saying that no, black lives don’t matter. You are really saying that some goal other than black lives matters a lot more, so much more, in fact, that you are willing to sacrifice more black lives to achieve that goal.

Rudolph: I believe this jury would have convicted him of literally anything put before them. Prosecution should have just thrown in the JFK assassination, Epstein’s death, and a few other unsolved mysteries (perhaps he’s the real DB Cooper?). And if they really wanted to impress the Left – especially Rachel Maddow – they should have charged him with being a Russian agent as well!

“You are really saying that some goal other than black lives matters a lot more, so much more, in fact, that you are willing to sacrifice more black lives to achieve that goal.”

If the BLM crowd really believed their rhetoric and wanted to protect black lives, they’d sponsor a series of nationwide PSAs on how to behave when under arrest.

Y’all his lawyers were absolute shit. Like I wonder if they screwed up on purpose level absolute shit. They didn’t even argue Floyd died of a drug overdose. They just mealy mouthed about oh gosh lots of stuff might have contributed so who knows what happened, amirite? Watch the closing arguments, it’s embarrassing.

Ryan, give ’em a break–they don’t want their houses burnt down either.

All Lives Matter … Even the Babies in their Mothers’ Wombs … whatever their Colour …. How about Protesting the Murders of those Little Ones??? That actions are legal, does not necessarily make them right or sinless before God.
We have all sinned and have fallen short before God. Let us pray for the graces of repentance all round.
God bless, C-Marie

Milton Hathaway: “You are really saying that some goal other than black lives matters a lot more, so much more, in fact, that you are willing to sacrifice more black lives to achieve that goal.”

This is obvious to us, but to our amazement and frustration most people can’t see it. Most people think this is simply about poor blacks being put upon by mean whites. If you try to explain there is a larger game afoot where blacks — and others — are deceived into acting as destroyers by a sinister force who gains power by making men miserable, they think you’re nuts.

I DID NOT see the video of Chauvin’s knee on his back, I saw the video of Chauvin’s knee on his neck. I thought it was unintentional manslaughter as he did not even try to help the man, just held him down. I do not believe for one second knowing video was running that he thought anything he was doing was against protocol. Later discovered he was holding him in place until the paramedics arrived. Floyd was not being compliant, cooperative, he was definitely resisting arrest. AND THEN pelosi says thank you to him for sacrificing his life???? Is she for real, makes it sound like they conspired – scenario – Floyd stops by his psychiatrist/doctor’s office – diagnosed as drug addled near dead, suicidal anyway – never let a situation go to waste – someone said hey you dying anyways – let us put it to use for against police cause – take this phony 20 – act crazy and resist, and then pelosi thanks him for his sacrifice as if she was a part of it

The jurors heard the testimony and considered the evidence. Both autopsy reports called this a homicide. The commenters here should actually read these reports. This was murder. Justice was served.

@Cloudbuster

“If I recall correctly, few if any of the complaints were found to have merit.”

hmmm, sure, when the police investigate themselves its not surprising that they found no problems.

@Milton

““Get rid of cops like Chauvin and you’ll do more to put a stop to this theatre than anything else.”

No, I really don’t think so.”

Seems straight forward to me.

If Chauvin hadn’t acted as he did then none of this would have happened.

I just don’t see how anyone can argue with that.

How is this possible? cowardice.

However.. I predict that this verdict will not stand (and, that Waters and Biden will not be charged with jury tampering; although both are self-evidently guilty. )

In the closing minutes of the trial the prosecution introduced new evidence (that everyone naturally assumed they hid from the defence for months) to the effect that GF’s blood O content was near normal at the time of the post-mortem examination. Introduced to counter the defence expert who added possible CO poisoning to the causes of death this amounted to prosecutorial misconduct – even the judge said this could force a mistrial and form the basis for an appeal.

However.. if GF died because Clavin et al cut off his O flow, the blood O content would not have been near normal. Therefore their actions did not cause his death. Some people will, of course, say the parameds gave him pure O in the ambulance (they did) but it would not have entered the bloodstream if he were already dead – and, if he wasn’t, then Clavin et al didn’t kill him. Either way Clavin et al have obvious grounds to demand a new trial and grounds for dismissal of charges when that trial is granted by the appeals court.

“The jurors heard the testimony and considered the evidence. Both autopsy reports called this a homicide. The commenters here should actually read these reports. This was murder. Justice was served.” This assumes humans NEVER make mistakes and somehow the American justice system is omnipotent. I cannot see how that can be defended. Technically, people are found not guilty or “on appeal”. A jury verdict is rarely final and certainly does not represent objective truth. Autopsies do not represent “truth”, they represent the conclusion of the person doing the autopsy. Like everything else in life, that which the writer chooses not to include or refuses to believe, or just missed, is not included.

Floyd died of a heart attack induced by a drug overdose. Chauvin happened to be there at the wrong time. If Floyd had just sat his ass down in the police car when they told him too, he’d still likely be dead given his heart disease and the amount of fentanyl (and meth and thc as well) in his system.

And already the media is moving on to a new Holy Victim of Whitey – the knife attacker whose mother abandoned her but who goes on TV to portray her murderous, knifing daughter as a “motherly” and “peaceful” person. If I were a white cop these days, I would simply refuse to go into any black areas or respond to calls involving blacks. Let them knife each other, shot each other, OD, etc. Not worth it. They won’t need to defund police, since most with any sanity will just leave the forces in droves, leaving nothing but skeletal remains of PDs incapable of responding to anything. This country is heading for complete societal breakdown, thanks to the DIE ideology of the last several decades. Anyone who can should look to just get out.

No. One. Decent. will allow themselves to be seated on any significant jury after this.

NO. ONE.

The judicial system is done.

OVER.

Which is precisely what Satan’s useful idiots want.

The really awesome Medical Examiner proved that there was no Carbon Monoxide poisoning by providing proof that Floyd’s blood was at 98% Oxygenation. I thought he had Positional Asphyxia…

I have yet to see someone explain a way that does what the knee technique does.

Using that technique the office does not have his hands on the head. If the officer tries to stabilize the head, the person on the ground can make it look like the officer is pounding his head into the ground. If the officer does not control the head at all, then he is may be liable for damage that occurs while he is flopping on the ground.

Should they have let Floyd drive away? (now they are liable for any damage he does after leaving)
Should they have let him run away with his hands behind his back? (Now they are liable if he falls)
If they had gone harder on him earlier, they might have damaged him in other ways…

If we have learned anything from this event, it is that qualified immunity had a reason.

Based on the blood panel, survival was in doubt for all pathways, except for that indication of blood oxygenation.

According to American like you guys:

The USA is the greatest most beautiful country in the word. You are supposed to be the freest country on earth.

Yet, very few countries in the world are less safe.
The USA IS THE MOST REPRESSIVE COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. With more people in prison in total than China or India who have a population 5 times larger.

People by gun to protect themselves. And every time someone is shot it is always the « good guy with the gun » who is afraid. Never the unarmed victim.

You are afraid of your neighbor, your government, the police. Blue lives only matter when interacting agains blacks. But they are the ennemies when they defend congress.

You believe stupid conspiracy theories and reject science.

Movies make the USA to be a paradise while it is no better than Saoudi Arabia.

Here is my question:

If the USA Are so great, why are you all so freaking afraid of everything?

Canadian, European, Australia, most Asian country do not live in fear. We do not live in a post apocalyptique world.

@Brad Tittle,

Maybe you should have watch the trial and listen to the prosecution pulmonologist explain the exact moment George Floyd died and how both knees of Chauvin prevented him from breathing. He also explained why he was able to say he could not breath until the level of oxygen fell so low he could not speak.

People by gun to protect themselves.

Yeah and it works!

Awhile back someone broke into my house while I was there. At first I thought it was the guy renting a room from me and was wondering why he was making so much noise. As I started down the stairs to investigate I realized it wasn’t him so I got my .38 pistol. He came out of the kitchen as I returned. When I pointed the gun at his head he suddenly remembered a pressing appointment elsewhere and quickly left to attend to it.

It must have been very pressing because when I followed out the door about 10 second later he was gone!

He’s never returned.

how both knees of Chauvin prevented him from breathing. He also explained why he was able to say he could not breath until the level of oxygen fell so low he could not speak.

Gotta wonder how the prosecution pulmonologist got all that from watching a video. Sounds more like an opinion. What tests were made to determine if it really was the cause and not just a possible one?

The high level of fentanyl in his system had nothing to do with his death of course.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/308156#fentanyl-overdose

Signs and symptoms of a fentanyl overdose include:
*) slow or shallow breathing,
*) feeling faint, dizzy, or confused,
*) slow heartbeat,
*) severe sleepiness,
*) cold and clammy skin,
*) trouble walking or talking,
*) unresponsiveness

Fentanyl (and opiates in general) prevent the body from detecting when to breathe so you simply stop trying.

re: People by gun to protect themselves.
https://notthebee.com/article/man-uses-his-gun-to-protect-his-family-and-others-from-criminals-with-guns-in-gun-free-mall

Some people must have missed the actual autopsies, the ones that actually examined the body and found that there were no signs of knee-to-the-necking suffocation. You know… actual science… versus the bits and pieces that mainstream media allows them to hear, which in this case is the “autopsy” done by the prosecution merely from watching cell phone camera footage.

This is why people are lining up to get the not-a-vaccines. Or they were anyway… as “demand” has dropped, and they intend to fix that with another fear and full-hospitals propaganda campaign. Even funnier when you realize they won’t tell you how many of those cases or those filling up the hospitals are the ‘already-vaxxed’ which are naturally being picked up by the PCR tests as easy-sucker-positives.

“They don’t care about the long-term and societal consequences of their dishonesty.”

They absolutely care, the long-term effects are why their behavior is encouraged by elites. The more violence, the more need for “police reform.” Police reform means increased federal control of local police. Which means more tyranny.

Everything the Left does makes perfect sense once you realize their goal is power.

Sylvain back with an army of straw men: “According to American like you guys: The USA is the greatest most beautiful country in the word. You are supposed to be the freest country on earth.”

Can you find one person who posts regularly on these threads who actually believes or has ever said this? And the rest of the post just gets worse from there…

As for the “I can’t breathe” stuff, if Sylvain had watched the entire body cam vid, he’d have seen that Floyd started saying “I can’t breathe” long before he was on the ground and while police were still just trying to get him to sit his ass down in the car. Since that “I can’t breathe” line goes back to another case a few years ago, it’s become a common refrain among black people under arrest…just shout “I cant’s breathe” and pretend you’re being abused no matter the situation while resisting arrest (though in Floyd’s case, it was probably true as he was likely already going into Fentanyl-induced cardiac arrest).

Kathleen: “No. One. Decent. will allow themselves to be seated on any significant jury after this.”

Well, most don’t have to worry about it anyway. Jury selection is mostly designed to weed-out the “decent” people capable of intelligent, critical thinking or complex analysis, especially in criminal cases. Attorneys, especially prosecutors, want malleable people easily swayed by emotion (and likely to go along with the herd – which helps prevent hung juries. Think about it – all Chauvin needed was 1 juror, yet not one had the courage to stand against the mob). I doubt most jurors even truly understood the burden of proof. Though I don’t do criminal law, I’ve seen myself how people often misconstrue burden of proof even after I’ve has been explained to them in a particular instance. Wouldn’t surprise me at all – despite it having been explained to them – if, deep down (perhaps even subconsciously) the jurors in this case actually operated as if the defense had to prove innocence and that “reasonable doubt” in effect meant “if in doubt about innocence, convict.” If I were a criminal defendant, I’d much prefer a bench trial if it were an option rather than leave my fate in the hands of 12 randos whose numbers the computer happened to spit out the day of jury selection (at least a judge can be expected to know the law and how to construe evidence in light of the proper burden of proof).

>> Think about it – all Chauvin needed was 1 juror, yet not one had the courage to stand against the mob

Yes. Exactly. Jury selection already was a mess. But — if your life depended on justice there was some faint glimmer of hope. My husband was the lone voice of reason twice on juries and turned them around. He seems to be cursed in getting called and seated. Me they kick out!

But next time he gets called you better believe I will be doing my best to see that they don’t seat him. These jackals would ruin us.

According to legal beagles in the Twin Cities, the Minnesota Statues second degree murder charge requires the commission of a Felony. So the question is was LEO DC committing a felony during the
arrest of Mr Floyd? I do not think so.

Hmm, I have been called for jury duty three times in my long life. Twice stricken due to my occupation and the last due to my declining health.

DAV,

“Gotta wonder how the prosecution pulmonologist got all that from watching a video. Sounds more like an opinion. What tests were made to determine if it really was the cause and not just a possible one?”

I can see that Tucker Carlson is eating your brain cells, or at least what remains.

If you had listened to the testimony of the pulmonologist you would have all the answers to all your question.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/16/fact-check-fentanyl-george-floyd-not-enough-to-cause-death/7239448002/

Someone who has taken fentanyl would not noticed that he can’t breath. For them it is like falling asleep.

Floyd lack so much air that he was trying to breath until he couldn’t.

Unresponsiveness is also something that can be observed when someone is dead.

Dav,

Yes, guns protect families.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/07/parents-of-boy-13-who-fatally-shot-9-year-old-brother-charged-with-child-endangerment.html

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/02/no-charges-will-be-filed-after-10-year-old-accidentally-kills-brother-with-revolver-da.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/04/03/a-5-year-old-looking-for-candy-found-a-gun-instead-then-fatally-shot-his-brother/

https://abc30.com/merced-shooting-accidental-girl-shot-by-brother-child-accidentally/7285501/

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/teen-tells-impd-that-older-brother-murdered-6-in-family-home/

This is only the first page search on google

Unresponsiveness is also something that can be observed when someone is dead.

Ya think?

Well, no, of course you don’t. However it does illustrate the shallow logic of those who are doing your thinking for you. You might want to replace them with more capable performers but then you’d have to think about doing that all by yourself so I guess it will never happen.

This is only the first page search on google

Let’s see. You went to a place known to actively censor opposing views to support your position as if you might have found nonsupporting items. Is Google the only place where you get your thought injections or are there others?

Wandering way off topic (not unusual with SA):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1T-AuM4wOQ

One poignant comment: “Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars”.

DAV

You win the Darwin Award

I guess the psychiatric institution holding you should increase your medication.

DAV,

«One poignant comment: “Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars”. »

What an idiotic comparison, that the right often use and always fail.

Senator Kennedy used it a few weeks ago, and looked like an idiot.

The primary use of a car is not to kill people.

A gun has only one purpose which is to kill.

Many type of weapons are designed for hunting. But hand gun are design to kill people.

And again why is it always the guy with the gun who is afraid?

I agree entirely with every word of this post. First time in a long while.

The best they had was manslaughter or negligence. Listening to the defence, particularly the closing arguments, which came a little late, thee WAS reasonable doubt.

George was already having a drug assisted anxiety attack and adrenalin serge before he even entered the vehicle.
“I can’t breathe”. several times before he was put on the ground.
‘I’m claustrophobic”. at the site of the small space? That was panic.
“losing” evidence from the police car? which happened to incriminate the victim?

The Irish Dr was a poor witness. His numbers were fanciful and nebulous at best.
It is true that as he describes, prevention of the movement of the chest cavity will reduce and potentially prevent movement air in and out of the lungs. However. It was not constant and some of the time George was on his side, saying the same thing and apparently, to Chauvin, making the same kinds of claims as he did prior to Chauvin laying a hand on him.
I believe Chauvin had reasonable reason to misread and misunderstand what was going on for George.

It is, as the Defence said, Tragic.

So much to say about this and the broader implications.

I do think Briggs is right that if a right turn does not happen on the political stage it will happen anyway by a lot of people getting hurt.

It’s easier for women in these kinds of situations.

For Murder, here, you have to have intent to kill.
For manslaughter, just an intent to hurt someone but not to kill them.

The best they had was negligence.

Whatever was in Chauvin’s heart at the time, he was punished because BLM>
He was used as a totem. As was George in death.

That’s not justice. It’s revenge.

Social surgery

Trial by media

Mob rule
Why would any one, as Briggs says, want to go near a dangerous neighbourhood as a police officer let alone a member of the public?

The white racists who hate their own race and the black racists who hate the whites do nobody any favours.

Keep telling the truth:
If you don’t want to be arrested or caught, don’t break the law.
Don’t resist Arrest!

Teach your young lads to do as they’re told. Stop telling them that policemen are evil.

This is how South Africa ended up the way it went. The most dangerous lace on Earth for gun crimes.

Police used to stop white people in their cars to MAKE SURE they had a gun in the glove box.
My late uncle was stopped out thee on that very basis.

BLM storms Oklahoma Capitol over GOP bills protecting drivers fleeing riots, police from ‘doxxing’.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/blm-insurrection-at-oklahoma-state-capitol/

cars may not have been designed to kill, but I would wager that cars kill more people than guns do. Protection is the purpose of a weapon not death, death is the result of needing to protect.

Question for Joy, how long ago and where did
“Police used to stop white people in their cars to MAKE SURE they had a gun in the glove box.
My late uncle was stopped out thee on that very basis.”
this occur?
My father was police officer in state of Delaware. I can assure you that never happened and our own glove box never contained a gun. He was both police officer and hunter.

Guest,
Lets hope it doesn’t happen in the US, but that’s the direction of travel if the trouble makers get their way.
In South Africa, the point is “give the US time”, that’s where it ends.

He was stopped years ago when he was first living there.
“do you have a gun on board?:
“yes’ said my Uncle,
Okay, off you go, or words to that effect, said the policeman.

Black people specifically, were killing whites for their phones or other trivial wants.
They are tribal in South Africa and always will be.
Social engineers are attempting to appeal to the same kinds of emotions amongst white and black people around the media’sphere.

Being a policeman is a noble profession

Johannesburg, Sorry. That’s where they lived but they may well have been travelling elsewhere by road.
He thought he was going to be in trouble for having a gun! Being English.

They were stopping drivers to advise them

@guest
Joy wasn’t talking about the US. No state requires gun ownership but there are at least 5 cities that do with some exemptions.

https://braincharm.com/2018/12/20/5-american-cities-that-require-you-to-own-a-gun/

Joy

Very interesting … and in the US, laws are unique to each state.
Minnesota has screwy statutes and I think they stretched them for this purpose

Between Maxine Waters and everything , Chauvin should be able to appeal
I’ll be watching Viva Frei and Robert Barnes summation this Sunday

Their interview with JD Vance was notable

https://rumble.com/vfx577-sidebar-with-j.d.-vance-viva-and-barnes-live.html

Guest

If you watch old Perry Mason shows, at least a half dozen involved or discussed guns in glove boxes
Being California, half of those cars were convertibles

Joy is quite correct. In the UK where I trained, and the UK and Canada where i practiced (albeit briefly and in torts not criminal), and in other countries of the Commonwealth there is no way the Crown would have touched a murder charge with a ten foot punt pole. It was all, quite clearly, a case of manslaughter that needed to be answered. However the statutes in Minnesota seem to have been written and used by the prosecution in such a way as to give a jury the option of a form of murder, I’m still not really clear on the law in this case. At any rate given a strict application of the letter of the law the jury did nothing “legally incorrect”. I also surmise these statutes were written to protect the public more from persons like Floyd himself, rather than Chauvin. Irony! In the UK he would, unless he were completely crackers, have opted for trial by judge alone to a charge of manslaughter. Commonwealth countries, for the most part, have a straightforward distinction between murder and manslaughter rather than a, somewhat bizarre, laundry list of types of murder. The minutiae of degree would be dealt with at sentencing. In the case of manslaughter judges have great latitude and can, in theory, give anything from time served to life. Perhaps to American notions this gives judges way too much power? Furthermore our judges are appointed not elected, which like anything else is a double edged sword! In this case 10 years to manslaughter conviction seems a likely outcome. Pity Chauvin was in Minnesota not Manchester.

“Guest”- Joys example was from South Africa not Delaware. I’m told Capetown is lovely, but I’m not anxious to find out!

Thank you Joy, I had hoped nothing that racist had occurred in US

J D Vance talks about his Nanna who was old and crippled and had at least one gun in every room so she had ready access to one. Her “favorite” gun was a 44 Magnum … not to shoot (he wasn’t sure she could even pick up … but Nanna would quote Clint Eastwood

J D Vance said she taught about guns when he was about 7 years old.
One time when she didn’t think he was paying attention, she shot the gun at a watermelon she set up
He jumped and Nanna told him if he wasn’t careful about guns, that’d be him

to require one race to carry a gun is racist, I am white. I think racism has been carried to the extreme and now flipped to whites being the noes racially oppressed, but I do not want it the other way where any one individual let alone whole group is treated less than another or better than another.

My dad would never be so careless with a gun. Our house was never locked, many excess could come and go – eat, be there when I got home from school, I am female. No problem until one day, I came home and his gun rack had been touched. One of his guns was put back upside down. From then on the house was locked and even at times I was locked out just because someone touched his guns.

Guest,
Whites were being targeted. Think of it as similar to wearing a rona mask. Unlike the mask though, the gun could save your life.

My dad would never be so careless with a gun

Or with bleach that someone might drink or his car keys to prevent thefts leading to an accident.

He only locked up the house? The gun was replaced. Doesn’t sound like what an outsider would do.

In the incident I related above, the gun was unloaded and locked in a safe. It took a depressingly long time to get to it and load it. Fortunately I had the time. Still I now keep it loaded and within easy reach.

When I was growing up the guns in the house were never kept under lock and key for much the same reason that the household bleach wasn’t as well. It was inconceivable they would be used outside of their intended purpose. The fact that most households these days don’t have guns means that the proper attitude toward them is rarely instilled.

My sister has a carry permit. One of the reasons is that her husband and sons often leave a pistol in the glove box and she could get into trouble if it was discovered without it. The primary reason though is it allows having protection available.

65 years old. in past I have used a gun – target shooting, I was fair. Now I think the gov will always have bigger guns, no matter what, criminals will always have the upper hand and I am not strong enough to shoot straight. I am relying on GOD to sort things out. or judgement. So look up your redemption draws nigh, and if you do not know JESUS as your LORD and Savior then get to someone who does and repent so you too can be a whosoever.

Strange Floyd claimed being “claustrophobic” was why he couldn’t just sit in the squad car, even though he had first been encountered sitting in the driver’s seat of a similarly sized vehicle! But this – along with frequent claims of “I can’t breathe” – is just the type of nonsense response blacks have been encouraged to take during any encounter with cops.

“Between Maxine Waters and everything, Chauvin should be able to appeal”

Of course he is “able to appeal,” as anyone can. The question is whether it will succeed. While there is certainly sufficient grounds to have the verdict overturned (even the trial judge basically said so, but passed the buck to a higher court rather than show some courage himself), it basically comes down to less a matter of pure law than whether or not the appeals court judges have any more political and moral courage than the trial judge or jurors. I wouldn’t hold out much hope (And given today’s political climate, it would be tantamount to the judge signing his own social and professional – perhaps even actual for both him and his family – death warrant). And I wouldn’t be surprised if Chauvin were to be suicided in jail to make his appeal a moot issue anyway.

Plantagenet
It does seem that the rules which applied for the jurors to consider were set up in such a way as to help jurors to make up their minds easily. That’s problematic, too. As you say, a judge would have been more objective. I thought the judge was not unsympathetic to Chauvin. He seemed to know, just a hunch, that it would be likely a retrial request would be sustained on appeal on grounds of juror coercion and non sequestration all the way through.

I detected distain towards the Pulmonologist and the EMT fire lady. He left quite a list of items for the defence to appeal about

JohnBy,
Judging from the crime programmes I’ve watch from America, the states vary so greatly, on sentencing, too.

Hope the Judge gives a sentence more in keeping with the actual truth of the matter.

Guest, it’s as Dav says out there.
Not to mention the lions and the other big five.

Did you see that on lockdown in South Africa the lions were lying all over the road?
You know how domestic cats do that in the sun? If only they were’n’t so ferocious

And as Briggs begins his post here “So the jury convicted Chauvin of both murder and manslaughter of the same man”. Yeah and that statement alone says it all of what’s going on here. Need we say anymore?!

In response to comment posted by Sylvain Allard:
>> Canadian, European, Australia, most Asian country do not live in fear
The Canadian governments lockdowns say otherwise.

Primitive civilizations have always sacrificed the innocent to assuage their ignorant fears. Mount Racisim is just one location among many.

I’m late with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9uxhby-8yU