It came as a surprise to many that people in 2020 died of other diseases than the coroandoom. Can you believe it? Not only that, but more of them died from heart disease than coronadoom. And not only that, but more died from cancer than coronadoom, too.
Stick around for an hilarious joke about masks below.
Accidents was close, but it has to be admitted coronadoom was said to have caused more death than “unintentional injuries.” The other category is intentional injuries, including the kind where a quack slips you a life-ending mickey. And charges you for it. But he gets away with it only because the insurance forms have “euthanasia” printed on them.
We get all these stats from a new JAMA paper—which even though it presents the exact same statistics using the exact same sources as this blog has been doing for over a year, is an official peer reviewed elite source, and therefore unassailable—by Farida B. Ahmad and Robert N. Anderson: The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020.
Put your peepers on this:
Cancer was about the same from last year. Beat the doom by a lot, like I said, but I won’t go on about it, because most have an unshakable belief that there isn’t a damned thing you can do about cancer. Which, likely, is partly true. Not wholly true. Read PD Mangan and others about seed oils and see if you change your mind. But that’s a subject for another day.
Heart disease deaths went up by a lot in 2020. Probably more than we’d have expected because of population increase (you’ll recall deaths have been going up year by year as we age and grow). It killed about twice as many people as they say the doom did. Twice as many.
Now “twice as many” is what we mathematicians call “times 2”. Meaning it was “times 2” deadlier than the doom.
There was no panic about these deaths. There were no lockdowns. There was no social distancing. There was no minute-by-minute, second-by-second announcements of new “cases” of obesity, which could be had by monitoring fast food feederies or doughnut shops.
The coronadoom will fade into the background, like flu, peaking up here and there and killing for years to come. But on a much smaller level.
Heart disease, however, will keep on killing in vast numbers. Probably increasing as the boomers make their exit. If it isn’t the leading cause, then cancer will be. You can never eliminate the leading cause of death, incidentally.
Anyway, why no panic over MIs? Even though heart disease is a much more efficient killer. And not just of the very old, like coronadoom, but of the middle-aged, too.
It’s true many thought the doom was the only, or largest by far, cause of death, and that all others were too small to mention. That’s just ignorance, of the kind the media excels at.
It’s also true many thought the doom was going to kill everybody unless “something” was done. It was enough for most that lockdowns, the purposeful jamming together the sick and healthy to more efficiently spread disease, and mask mandates were issued. The government was doing “something”, and “something” was all that was needed in people’s minds.
They still thought everybody was going to die, until they got a vaccine, which wasn’t really enough to protect them. Like with masks, your vaccination protected others, not yourself.
But forget all that. The simple reason people didn’t get into a panic over a times 2 killer was the media and the government didn’t ask them to panic over it.
People accept heart disease deaths because they’re used to them. So they don’t count. We never had glaring hourly headlines announcing the number of new heart attacks. If we did, then we’d surely panic.
Here’s the big joke. You can’t, as all data suggests, prevent an airborne respiratory disease from killing people. But you can prevent a lot of heart disease. How?
With masks!
Either you lock them over your nacho hole, or you put it over your eyes when you read the government’s official nutrition advice, which was crafted by experts. The same kind of experts who suggested lockdowns.
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Those numbers, admittedly, are telling, and THEIR numbers. But don’t forget that, according to the CDC, 94% of coronacrap deaths are NOT caused by the beer bug, but with it as a “concausa”, a contributing factor. That flu deaths dropped like the temperatures in Texas on January… That the statistic of years lost says the coronacrap disease didn’t subtract much and was but a marginal factor. Ans I haven’t touch on Cuomo and Newsom homes for the elderly deaths. So, with the proper context, this numbers only show……… that the average person in the entire planet is but a sheep, ready for whatever the oligarchs decide for them….
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Interesting. Where are the 88,000 overdose deaths? Are those “unintentional injuries”? (Interesting that the reporting period is May-May. The huge spike was from near the beginning of the plandemic.)
Read footnote b.
Flu 53495 – I thought that flu has disappeared.
Don’t you just love it when Our Betters present their data using left-justified columns of numbers?
Shock, shock. Someone read the actual stasts. There’s probably a law against that or Joe/Kamala is creating an EO. Hiding them in a journal is okay, but not broadcasting them.
Excellent uses for masks. Now, if they weren’t blowing all over the landscape and floating in the ocean….But it’s okay, that’s the government polluting and killing sea life. They can do that, you know.
You left out the murderous governors who took out over half the “victims of covid” and the CDC that murdered a large number with their POLITICALLY allowing drugs to be used. Take out the murders, and you have less than a quarter of the deaths.
Why don’t they just make a vaccine that prevents death?
That would solve all our problems.
I hope Gates is working on it.
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Or a vaccine that prevents idiocy.
The holy grail would be a vaccine that prevents evil.
What would people do then?
I would like to know how many people actually died just from the doom. That number is unknown and likely unknowable, given the fakery by the doommeisters and other factors, such as, does it even exist? — coming from virus and germ theory skeptics. I know of one ninety year old neighbor who supposedly died of it, know a few others who caught some sort of crud and got over it, but people weren’t dropping like flies. They were dropping like sheep, sure, but not flies.
Maybe the doom was actually just a media virus, spread electronically, and if you avoided electronic devices you wouldn’t catch it and get sick by suggestion. That would explain Africa and the Amish. A lot of uncertainty here. It’s an interesting topic, Briggs — Uncertainty — maybe you should write something about it? Not much money in it, of course, but that never stopped you.
On their “Excess mortality” page, Our World in Data says “The US suffered roughly 360,000 more deaths than the five-year average between 26 January and 3 October 2020, compared to 209,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths during that period.” They include a footnote: “Because the US has an increasing trend in mortality over recent years, comparing to the five-year average makes 360,000 excess deaths an overestimate, though it is in the ballpark. For instance, the US CDC estimates roughly 300,000 excess deaths during that time.”
So using the CDC’s numbers, in the first 8 months of the pan(dem)ic, there were 91,000 non-covid excess deaths, or about 44% of the number of “confirmed” covid deaths. I wonder how many of these were suicides, drug overdoses, the result of missed medical procedures, etc.
Looking at the mortality *rate*, I calculate that 2020 was about as bad as 2003, and better than any year before that. I seem to recall feeling pretty safe in 2003.
Finally, looking at deaths per million population, covid has been maybe 3 times as bad as the Hong Kong flu in 1968, 2 x the Asian flu in 1957, and 1/8 the Spanish flu in 1918.
Maybe the actual number of coronadoom deaths is like Schrödinger’s cat, and when you try to measure it it turns into a boa constrictor, or something. Or is that the Michaelson-Morley experiment? Ah, no, it’s Kurt Gödel, and the more knowledge you gain about something the more imponderables pile up, so perfect ignorance gives perfect certainty. Or maybe it’s Ohm’s law… well, something explains everything but I haven’t got all morning to figure it out — there’s wood to split, so I’m splitsville. (When I split wood am I also splitting the atoms?)
Dean Ericson +1 *5
Dean: The actual number of coronadoom deaths is like Schrodinger’s cat except it doesn’t turn into a boa constrictor (though that would be cool!). It depends on who opens the box, when it’s opened, and who’s watching. The actual number is imaginary, of course, one of those “i” numbers you see in calculus.
As far as the wood goes, nope, not splitting atoms. I find it you cute you think there really are atoms! 😉
Shhhh! It’s a secret. It must never never be said, or written, or mentioned in any way. But ABORTION beats them all, as a cause of DEATH that is. Unless you don’t believe ABORTED babies are dead, or human, or matter in the slightest. Because people like Farida and Bob, the JAMA statisticians of DEATH, don’t. They never mention ABORTION. Not on their radar screens. Not part of their world. Don’t count. Don’t amount to a hill of beans. So keep a lid on it. We don’t want to get Cancelled by the New Thuggerinos, do we? Mums the word. Stick ABORTION under your hat and leave it there.
Deans Ericson:
We have a two part vaccine that prevents idiocy: reading and thinking.
—
In this case it has been obvious all along that the virus killed 100% of the people it first affected (in aug/sept) but then regressed to almost its almost original form very quickly. When western leaders were first briefed on this (circa Jan/feb) around 5% of the infected were dying. Now it’s down to less than 1% -and those have to have to at least one co-morbidity: obesity and age being the most common. The political reaction, however, is still based on the 5% estimate…
As to what causes death–it’s usually organ failure, even when some form of cardio-respiratory (C-19) disease.
My sister-in-law succumbed (in hospital) a couple years ago after dealing with cancer for 5 years. My brother noted that nowhere on her death certificate was ovarian (or any other) cancer noted as a cause of death.
Generously, it’s referred to as death due to complications arising therefrom in the treatment of side effects of medical therapies. The cliché that ‘the surgery was a success but the patient died’ comes to mind.
The general public is hugely ignorant their bodies contain millions of pathogens that help keep the immune system functioning. Ignorant of reality, unable to fathom uncertainties of life, they cling to any explanation to absolve their unknowing that isolation and ultra-cleanliness is detrimental to normal functioning health. Therefore, we get nonstop performance of theatre–public health theatre, public health theatre, and the granddaddy of them all–news media as entertainment.
Why would there be social distancing for cancer or heart disease if the transmission mechanism is completely different from covid? (ie. cancer or heart disease don’t spread in air or by germs)
Justin
It’s Holy Saturday. This needs to be said. Re the “leading causes of death”…
The leading cause of death in the United States — by a lot — is elective abortion. This has been true for many years. The death rate from elective abortion is always somewhere near the total deaths from cancer and heart disease, *combined*.
And all of those deaths were preventable.
Got stuck at P D Mangan and then on to the seed oils. So glad we do not eat processed foods, overall. Have to check out the mayonnaise!
https://davidgillespie.org/category/vegetable-oils/
Fully agree that the murder of the unborn children is the leading cause of death in the United States.
God bless, C-Marie
“nobody gets out alive”
Briggs of the statistics,
“It came as a surprise to many that people in 2020 died of other diseases than the coroandoom. Can you believe it? Not only that, but more of them died from heart disease than coronadoom. And not only that, but more died from cancer than coronadoom, too.”
~~~
No it didn’t and are you disappointed or surprised, or do you maintain that others are?
I hate to say
“told you so”,
but
‘told you you’d say that.”
I didn’t wait for the joke about masks because you’re being silly and petulant about them. Churlish….that kind of thing. Phoney outrage that would make a left wing activist proud.
Most people die of death
Re obesity and co-morbidities. That is always the case. It is not unique to this disease.
All diseases, particularly infectious ones have poorer outcomes in obese or otherwise compromised patients.
It’s not breaking news! Heavy bodies require more oxygen. Unfit people are not built for low oxygenation, and on and on.
Re the R naught: Neil Ferguson’s the R man. Much misquoted and and obtusely understood by those who know better, one would hope. At this stage, I wonder.
“disappeared” is a word implying zero. It is only claimed by uninformed people that ‘flu has disappeared’. Or those who in conversation are meaning what their counterparts fully understand. Usually the words “all but” help in this kind of misinformation problem.
JohnK,
Quite right. Thank you.
Joy, “disappeared” wasn’t meant literally and it’s quite uninformed of you to take it as “implying zero”, when everybody on this blog knows that flu has been mostly officially missing after covid started.
in my experience, people who use the word “misinformation” unironically are not arguing in good faith. “Misinformation” simply means bad, unapproved thoughts.
No Hun,
It means the state of being misinformed.
You are projecting by your own standards.
Disappeared has a clear, absolute, meaning.
No “everybody on this blog”, is not in agreement on this. “everybody on this blog” just doesn’t necessarily chose to make their opinion known as I am doing on this topic.
There’s only one truth Hun
Joy, the provided information on this blog is that *official* number of flu deaths have collapsed (to single digits, I believe). *Official* is the key word here.
I am not sure if you are being obtuse or simply arguing in bad faith, like do often people who keep railing against “misinformation”.
It doesn’t matter. official stats say that flu has disappeared (not virtually). Whether that corresponds with reality is not relevant in this argument.
” official stats say that flu has disappeared (not virtually).”
Correction: Meant to say “virtually” without the “not”
…and if when you said,
‘disappeared’, you meant something else why not say what you really meant?
So far the best estimate which is queried by the skeptics is 36,000 to forty something thousand a year.
For flu, in the US.
If people don’t agree on a starting estimate how can any discussion go anywhere?
Is this just about moaning rights?
In which case, sorry to interrupt
All lives are precious. The abortion topic is irrelevant to anybody wanting to be consistent. That goes for the extremist lefties as well as the far right, who both claim only one aspect of life is really worth saving.
I will quote Briggs: “Flu is still gone the whole world over.” That was a comment accompanying the WHO flu tracker.
Now if you are a moron or arguing in bad faith, you would say something like “gone in the whole world is implying zero”.
Anyway, the CDC sourced table above claims that 2020 flu deaths are basically the same as previous years. However, the flu season usually starts in late October, with December being a fairly bad month. But in 2020 “flu was gone the whole world over” during these months – officially, according to WHO.
Was the flu in the first half of the year that bad to make up for the missing numbers in the second half? If I remember correctly, the year started with below average excess deaths, so not likely.
Something doesn’t add up.
And you Joy, are obviously arguing in bad faith. I am done with you.
Hun,
If you have to resort to insult, you’ve already lost the argument.
You need to make your mind up what you think others ‘think’.
So do your fellow skeptics, or those that agree with you.
Sloppy loose language used to be one thing Briggs was keen on ruling out.
Of course if it’s just the row you like, endlessly, like jazz that never ends, count me out too.
Hun,
Not only all that, but the table does not say “flu”, but “flu and pneumonia”. Aha. Big difference.
In the US about 200,000 per year die of F+P every year. Why this is saying 57K is a mystery. Big under count of the old CDC numbers. Up until about May 2020, the CDC still reported the distinction (listed in the sources, the csv file, week 38 I believe, in the doom updates, so everybody can check my numbers). Then they stopped. Everything F+P became at least a suspect doom death. The CDC now lumps all together.
Briggs, they were always lumping flu and pneumonia together in their summary (better called “marketing”) reports, or at least in several recent years.
“In the US about 200,000 per year die of F+P every year. Why this is saying 57K is a mystery.” (53.5k btw, 57k was 2015) It also has very similar numbers for the previous years. As if nothing changed in 2020. Interesting isn’t it?
“Everything F+P became at least a suspect doom death.” Exactly, I agree.
“The CDC now lumps all together.” They don’t seem to be very transparent about that, though.
As I said previously:
Our number is reliably counted or not disputed in the way that CDC numbers evidently are.
If our number is seven to eleven thousand per year, on average, it’s not unreasonable that the US would be five times those numbers. Even with differences in health care provision.
Why always suspect conspiracy? why not just accept that cause of death even in individual cases in ordinary times is not clear cut all of the time?
Regarding the WHO? That’s a low standard, given their recent record, to use to make the the claim that covid 19 is not all that bad or is in some way being exaggerated.
Regarding the flu ‘disappearing’, I’m talking about what is not controversial about what has happened.
If someone catches covid or even measles, and dies, they’re not there to catch the flu that year?
There isn’t a mystery.
Just a lot of untrusting onlookers.
Joy: “Why always suspect conspiracy?” It’s generally stupidity, incompetence and politics. Conspiracies are not needed to explain what is going on.
Disappeared does not mean “zero”. It means it’s down to where it’s not included in stats and people don’t notice it. I can’t count how many times “extinction”, which does mean zero, has actually been “dang, we found more specimens where we didn’t expect to”.
Covid was really not all that bad. People were bad. The disease had a low death rate if murderous politicians didn’t withhold treatment and put sick people in nursing homes. That’s the science. The rest is politics.
You’re right that covid or measles death reduces the flu deaths the next year, but so do heart attacks and cancer, which are still out there and still counted. Plus, the covid/flu connection was a political discussion mostly, because if Covid was flu, people would not be terrified. There is a very real reason to not trust. Those are not mysteries either.
Joy: Accuses Briggs of lying, calls the commenters conspiracy theorists, implies they have nothing to offer but insults
Also Joy: Why are all of the commenters so nasty! It must just be because they don’t have a real argument!
Newflash, Joy: If EVERY OTHER COMMENTER HERE BUT YOU can understand what Briggs meant when he said “the flu disappeared”, then *by definition* it wasn’t misleading.
Sheesh.
Briggs,
Of course you didn’t mention this inconvenient truth:
”Most of the increase in deaths from 2019 to 2020 was directly attributed to COVID-19. However, increases were also noted for several other leading causes of death. These increases may indicate, to some extent, underreporting of COVID-19, ie, limited testing in the beginning of the pandemic may have resulted in underestimation of COVID-19 mortality.6″
How many people dies of very contagious heart attack?
When the gurus of the corporate financial reporting world need to provide some extra cover for off-the-rails management, their technique of choice is moving items “off-balance-sheet” or “into the footnotes”.
This is where pesky analysts go to locate those fearsome “contingent liabilities” and “pending multi-billion-dollar-litigation” items which otherwise go un-reflected in annual statements of income and asset/liability balances.
So, I suspect it is with vanishing 2020 Influenza deaths globally. It’s mainly a question of bookkeeping procedure. If a death occurs due to any form of respiratory infection ~ then this is marked as a COVID death ~ since we are presently in declared conditions of a COVID Pandemic. Therefore, as a matter of epidemiology policy, no one croaks from simple flu any these days. Think of it as epidemiological leger de main.
This policy (of public health surveillance) was originated by the British statistician William Farr (1807–1883) who collected health records for the Crown. It was he who first proposed logically counting all “excess mortality” during an epidemic as singularly due to the epidemic disease alone unless another conclusive reason was clearly present (e.g. fall from a tree) – and sorting out the mess later (if ever). Times were different and data channels were less formalized.
SEE LINK HERE: || Origins and progress in surveillance systems \\ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/9781118543504.ch2
ANOTHER ARTICLE: William Farr: Founder of Modern Concepts of Surveillance (ALEXANDER D. LANGMUIR)
goes deeper into Farr’s original counting methodologies and justifications therefore – but I don’t have public URL.
Sadly, folks who know little about medicine, virology, molecular biology, or causation, are nonetheless permitted to lie and misdirect with abandon employing statistics and sophistry.
Sheri,
I had concluded that the discussion on disappeared had two fronts:
1 that the numbers were not apparent in the data that was counted collected,
2, that the word has caused confusion by those who think that it actually HAS “disappeared”. Or claims being made one way or the other regarding what the flu has “done”.
(Although this was not clear to me until recently, since one never really knows what people actually think as opposed to what they’re being sarcastic, satirical, parodies or just wrong, about.)
However as two your point about extinction? Of course, and you know I’ve been present going way back making this clear by responses such as on the post about the gorillas who “disappeared”, literally as they were “hiding” Up the other end of the jungle! (Who can blame them when their heads are being counted.) I’m sure covid would do the same if it could! Imagine THAT in the equation!
The point is that like the word RAPE, EVIL, FREEDOM, RACIST… have all been variously altered by a polarised often crazed, public discourse, it seems all too easy for the same thing to happen with all sorts of words when the emotions are. running high and suspicion rules. Nobody trusts anybody else’s judgement let alone their word.
So no point in adding to unnecessary suspicion is where I’m coming from.
It’s long been recommended to always suspect incompetence before foul play. I’ve found this to be true having worked in the public sector and being on the “mopping up” end of some complex situations.
Then:
“Covid was really not all that bad. People were bad. “
People were bad, yes and covid was bad, for some and not for others. That’s the truth. Some even got richer from it! As in all disaster situations.
Covid was/is bad for the reasons which are clearly laid out by earnest scientists as opposed to activists from either flavour. I still maintain the argument is really about whether it is “bad enough” and when that point is proven, the goal post shifts to “nothing’s bad enough”…freedom.
So I simply think that agreement on some very basic truths would really help this debate whether political OR scientific Or anything else.
For me? Politics in general and in all its over representation, is the least interesting but it is the biggest problem in today’s societal disharmony.
Thinking about your last paragraph…
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Sylvain,
“How many people dies of very contagious heart attack?”
Here’s a classic example:
This could be straight, if you know a bit about heart attacks, but Sylvain’s being sarcastic, I’m having to guess.
“Heart attack” is not a disease it’s a symptom characterised by the alteration of the normal rhythm of the heart or what is more commonly intended the ceasing of any beat at all.
Just like “sore throat’. Is just a symptom.
Maybe the person swallowed some wasps or maybe they ate too much ice cream? Maybe they have the common cold/. Maybe something sinister.
Maybe they did more than one or none of those things!
That’s the same for all symptoms and signs.
The word “disease” now no longer means one kind of thing.
It’s a general word for pathology which can also be used to title a specific condition with known cause and expected prognosis.
To what extent are we seeing the fact that Baby Boomers are now starting to hit 75 and are thus dying off?
Figure 1 in this publication is pretty interesting!
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/p25-1141.pdf
“The coronadoom will fade into the background, like flu, peaking up here and there and killing for years to come. But on a much smaller level.”
Not so sure, I don’t think they’ve had enough fun yet. I think their plans are more sinister. I predict it gets worse. Of course had we left it alone it would do so. Something about their intervention will make it worse. I’m not sure what, but I suspect the people taking the vaccine will become much more susceptible and start dying in greater numbers, justifying all manner of Stalinesque insanity.
Sheri,
You’re right that covid or measles death reduces the flu deaths the next year,”
The point is that the deaths from flu have gone down along with all the social isolation. That’s what has helped prevent the flu everywhere. Whether it SHOULD have been done is quite another matter.
but so do heart attacks and cancer, which are still out there and still counted.”
Not sure what they have to do with anything.
“ Plus, the covid/flu connection was a political discussion mostly, because if Covid was flu, people would not be terrified. “
Well, no, people who work in healthcare, pastoral care and those affected by it, looking at the numbers, know this is not just a bad flu year (if it were, for argument sake, just flu, as you say).
However if personal testimony of the sheer numbers involved in this leave you still in disbelief I don’t know what to say. How about the Priest from county Antrum who reports that he was visiting the hospital three or four times a day and seven days a week. He attended the bedside of 100 people or more who died and he’s not a young man. Nothing like this has happened in his experience before. So “bad flu year’ is rather a weird comparison.
“There is a very real reason to not trust. Those are not mysteries either.”
That is true but the point is nobody trusts anybody. It cuts both ways, it seems. I can now see why.
Winter pressures are a normal part of working in the health system. We don’t tend to need the statistics to confirm what we know first hand. There are yearly spending allowances for hospitals dating with winter pressure. I worked through many winters which were extremely busy with a host of different things. This is another league. That is my witness from the outside and the inside.
I don’t think people are terrified but some probably are because the media are so dishonest, self serving and effectively a branch of the left wing government, in the case of the US and of the shadow government in the UK.
At an Easter gathering a relative (who is an EMT) ranted about an old woman that she was fond of who was “killed by the Coronavirus.” The thing is that it became clear in her discussion that the woman in question was not killed by COVID-19, and in fact had even tested negative for the virus shortly before her death. What had happened was that she had a chronic respiratory condition and needed a surgery to correct it. At first her surgery was rescheduled for several weeks as hospitals canceled all non-COVID “elective” appointments. After they allowed these procedures again, the woman in question was once again barred from going to the hospital because her granddaughter had gotten COVID-19, and so it was assumed that she was also sick and needed to be quarantined. In the end her surgery was delayed for something like three months, and she eventually died due to complications with her existing breathing problems.
But this was consistently phrased by my EMT relative as “being killed by COVID-19”.
Your “EMT” knows better than you do, Rudolph.
In any epidemic there are indirect and direct deaths. Some due to overwhelming of the service and some due to rescheduling of elective surgery. If you haven’t been near a ward or department dealing with surgery and respiratory conditions you won’t understand that infection control is paramount.
In an ideal world there would be idle hospitals waiting for just such an occasion when patients require treating in separate venues. Thee is not and never will be enough funding for that.
Epidemics cause indirect and direct deaths.
The indirect deaths have long tendrils associated with their cause.
Non of that is news.
Keep pressure off the services and elective surgery will continue to go ahead.
Life saving surgery of the type you describe has continued too go ahead in limited numbers. Some hospitals have remained covid free so that they might continue working. Such as the Royal Marsden.
The skill is not just in the treatment but in the logistics.
By comparison,
In the city, I happen to know that companies have entire trading floors set up ready to go for emergency situations. Everything is done in duplicate at least so that taking out of one area will have minimal effect.
Health never has that kind of luxury and I’m not making a case that it should, but Managing complex patients and complex situations is nota walk in the park.
Incidentally can we have the bug removed that alters “to” to “two” and “to” to “too’
Perhaps “two” to “to” too!
Very annoyin
Guys, anyone here figured out long ago that ‘Joy’ over here is either completely oblivious to picking up on rhetoric, obvious jokes, and hyperbole to the point that ‘Joy’ engages is ultra hyperliteralism whenever reading anything anyone has written, or is deliberately pretending to be obtuse to argue in bad faith under large heapings of circular arguments and just general paranoia where like our covid tyrants, even if a chance of a disease getting you is 0.00000000000000000000001 percent, that is still a completely unacceptable number and therefore you need to be masked and quarantined in a concrete prison deep underground in case an elderly person catches something.
Joy is insane. But that’s only a feint. The fact is that Joy chose a side which has overtime continued to expose itself as being absurdly wrong, and therefore to escape the embarrassment, much like our covid politicians, Joy is trying to salvage her reputation by continuing to insist Joy is still ‘right’ via esoteric appeals to the statistically improbable ‘dark matter’ that Joy believes is going about and then expecting all the kings horses and men and the blessed science to keep every microscopic fragment of Humpty Dumpty’s shattered shell together despite how futile it all is.
Joy doesn’t like the fact that we’re powerless. Joy has faith in the corporate medical priesthood to deliver Joy from evil. Understand that you are criticizing Joy’s religion. Then you’ll see why Joy is spinning in circles and grasping at straws.
What Joy thinks you’re arguing is that Covid is the same as heart attacks and cancer. What Joy has missed is that the actual argument is that Covid has not exceeded the average numbers of dead from the Covid of Olde, nor even the average deaths of other routine health issues.
The world and Joy have gone lock -down mask-up nuts over the bronze medalist of infectious diseases. This is the most unprecedented third place threat da wurld haz evar faced! Requiring us to destroy everything and start over from the stone age including the simulated reality of learning to go outside of our primordial homes and learning to difficultily breathe air through our new gubmint mandated gills. Da doctor said so! We have to reset and evolve as the new religion of Joy’s says so in order to ascend to the omega point of being able to shop at Wal Mart again safely.
Sylvain Allard has missed the ‘may have’s and ‘may indicate’s in the little smoking water pistol of a paragraph; always a common hallmark tossed out there to explain away actual findings with an ad hoc supposition to please the militant regime that desperately wants to impress upon you that you MUST PANIC ALWAYS!
As when George Carlin was asked by airport security if he ‘may have’ any dangerous weapons or substances with him that he thinks he’d brought that he wanted to declare, and he retorted that he ‘may have’ brought his arrowhead collection with him, but he didn’t.
Those ‘may haves’ are the manna from Heaven that are all the Covidian faithful need to lock you down and ruin your life. Just like some Muslim tending his sheep in Afghanistan ‘may have’ done something as a butterfly effect that caused a terrorist attack somewhere. So following our authorities advice we best fire off a missile in his general direction. That’s the sort of dedication from our experts that keeps America safe! Anyone claiming that this causes side effects of increased terrorism uptake and retaliation is a peacekeeping-denier!
Johnno,
Cll that an argument?
Are you another one calling himself a Christian?
If you have a direct response to anything and can construct an argument without being rude or disdainful, it might trigger some kind of sane response.
The argument is precisely circular in This world of the internet discussion because definitions are never made clear neither are premises established as agreed upon prior to making the calculations.
There are a lot of doe eyed followers at this corner of the internet and many group[ thinkers of which you are clearly one. Your view is formed by default resulting from your political persuasion rather than being driven by what’s true and what’s false. That’s not my problem it’s yours
“But ABORTION beats them all, as a cause of DEATH that is.”
Oh Silly Uncle Mike. We solved that problem in Canada. You see, an embryo may well be a human, but the Canadian bill of rights does not define it as a “person”, so no rights exist for it.
See? Easy.
RE:
“Person”. you make my point
The premise is the point of disagreement
In arguments about life and death, one would think people could clear their head a bit to argue as if they actually did care, as opposed to simply wanting to display righteous anger all the live long day
Here’s why the presentation cannot be taken seriously, take this paragraph:
“It’s also true many thought the doom was going to kill everybody”
Of course, how many is many? NOT MOST nor even the critical individuals involved in making decisions.
If the latter’s the claim, then it’s a falsehood as a rule of thumb.
” unless “something” was done. It was enough for most that lockdowns, the purposeful jamming together the sick and healthy to more efficiently spread disease, ”
You see that is also untrue and you know it to be false. The purpose is to prevent movement of the virus which is carried by humans. Simply breaking transmission chains. THAT some did not understand basic infection control and THAT many live on top of each other with poor sanitation, would have been the same with or without a lockdown.
The Cuomo action is not representative of how to manage an epidemic. He proves that he is unfit for office. The irony though that it’s not until he’s accused of something sexual that people are “shocked”. It looks as if he’s been whacked. That kind of thing happens in New York.
“and mask mandates were issued. The government was doing “something”, and “something” was all that was needed in people’s minds.”
That old chestnut. “do something”. A common problem with weak leaders!!! and politicians. However it does not mean that the wearing of masks was not helpful. Even before you start arguing about the “mandate”.
So if it’s the “mandate”, which is problematic, then the argument is really about freedom, as I said before.
There’s a good argument to be made, or a consistent one, that masks should be optional for the population.
Certainly in a free country.
That’s not what’s being claimed though! the row switches to “masks don’t work”
Same for lockdowns
So it;’s really a political discussion masquerading as something factual or scientific
With a bit of religion thrown in for clarity
Hun and Johnno,
http://aphilosopher.drmcl.com/2020/12/11/arguing-good-and-bad-faith/
“So if it’s the “mandate”, which is problematic, then the argument is really about freedom, as I said before.”
Yes – allow freedom of choice.
If this is as bad as is made out, then Darwin will ensure that only the believers will survive.
See that? You don’t need to do anything and before too long, all the deniers wil die off, leaving just the believers (and a lot of used masks, I presume)
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This would seem to put the lie to the idea that many deaths brought on by other major causes were attributed to covid, right? Like the idea that the rules for listing a death were changed vis a vis covid, in that unlike other situations — say, when someone has a disease like heart disease or cancer, but who gets the flu and is killed by it — is still typically listed as having died from the underlying condition; but with covid they are listed as having died from covid, not the underlying disease. This would seem to show that this didn’t happen on a large scale. Right? To me this seems kind of important, because I’ve seen a number of discussions where they say or at least imply that when it comes to covid the rules for listing the cause of death was changed, to emphasize covid as the cause of death. At the Freedom Foundation, for example, they have been gathering death certificates for people listed as having died from covid, but where they say, ‘no, they didn’t really die from covid.’
Kevin, in order to list a death as Covid, the cadaver or patient while still alive still needs to be tested with the fuddy duddy PCR cycling event.
So given its a 50/50 coin toss regardless of the merits of the result at least have if the tested will be negative and unable to be included in the numbers due to procedure.
Keep in mind that the PCR nonsense is so unreliable that you can get false positives. So the numbers you see are already inflated. And when you over cycle more and more then the chance of a false positive starts to rise above 50.
Then there are those presumed cases from early on that required no testing whatsoever for “cautionary” reasons. I don’t know if that is still followed but it was useful to develop the panic early on.
Also since then, hours after Biden was declared the winner of America’s Top President, the WHO began issuing instructions to scale down the PCR testing because it was not reliable, which they always knew. But now they can begin artificially improving their artificial situation under the chosen one.
Thank you Uncle Mike for the best post on this Catholic blog.