The flu vaccine became widely available in the middle of the Twentieth Century. Since then, nobody has died of the flu.
Right?
“Briggs, you fool. Not everybody takes the flu vaccine. Why can’t you stop exaggerating.”
You’re right. Let me try again. The flu vaccine became widely available in the middle of the Twentieth Century. Since then, nobody who has received the vaccine has died of the flu.
Right?
Strange, too, that the WHO says up to 650 thousand people die of the flu. Every year. Even in the presence of the vaccine. Even, for some, after taking the vaccine.
“You know darn well there is no single unique flu virus, you fraud. The virus mutates, and the vaccines changes from year to year in an effort to target what scientists think will be the primary mutations raging through the population.”
That so? Do they always guess right?
“No, but that doesn’t make the vaccine of any less worth.”
Yes, it does. If scientists guess wrong about the mutations, completely wrong, then the vaccine is of no worth at all, and even of negative worth because in come cases, the vaccine causes harm. Doesn’t it?
“There is still some value, they say, but maybe not large. Anyway, I’m not worried about side effects.”
Being worry free is a commandment of scripture, I’ll grant you that. But isn’t it so that even if the scientists do guess right about the season’s mix of mutations, some people who still get the vaccine still keel over early into pit, pushed there by flu?
“It is.”
And will the coronadoom virus mutate, too? Indeed, haven’t several variants already been discovered?
“I suppose so.”
The vaccines being developed now target the known variations of coronadoom. Supposing these vaccines are somewhat efficient, it’s no guarantee they’ll work for the new mutations, right?
“No, no guarantee.”
And isn’t it the case the vaccine could interact badly with new mutations, as sometimes happens with vaccines?
“That is true.”
All right. And isn’t it also true that coronadoom appears on its way out as any kind of major killer? Deaths are dropping everywhere, are they not? Haven’t measured T-cell and other antibody immunities been noted in sampling throughout the world, suggesting herd immunity is near?
“I know you expect me to argue about new cases, but I won’t. What you say about deaths dropping is true. But then you have to admit there could be an even deadlier second wave coming in the fall!”
That’s true, there could. And there could be a third even deadlier wave arriving next spring. And a fourth even deadlier still wave next fall. And a fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, more! All these are logical possibilities. But so far the evidence is this pandemic is like all others and will peter out to background levels soon. What evidence, besides terror and the worry you profess not to feel, do you have for these deadlier waves?
“I didn’t say I wasn’t worried about a second deadly wave. Isn’t it enough that it could happen? Some models say it could.”
The same models that got the first wave so wrong? Plus you do recall that every model every only says what they’re told to say? Never mind, skip it. Low-blow question. We were talking about vaccines, so let’s stick to that.
Let me summarize. Vaccines protect but don’t guarantee that people who take them won’t die from the bugs vaccinated against. The bugs themselves mutate and stymie vaccination efforts, and even cause problems, even deadly problems, with mutation-vaccine interactions. This new vaccine for the coronavirus, the first ever vaccine of its type in humans, has caused some nasty side effects in trials, and will likely do so in general populations.
Plus, most people wouldn’t need it. I mean, those under, say, 60 and healthy are at more risk of slipping and falling on banana peels and cracking open their skulls than in succumbing to coroadoom. This will be even truer by the time the vaccine actually arrives.
“There you go exaggerating again. I wish you’d stop it.”
Very well. You take my point. The young and healthy aren’t dying from coronadoom and don’t need a vaccine. Finally, the bug seems, like in all pandemics, to be fading away. A vaccine, whatever its merits, isn’t universal salvation against the virus, yes?
“Not universal, no.”
It just doesn’t seem necessary for most people, especially those tens, perhaps even hundreds, of millions who already had the bug, most without even knowing it, and who are now immune. To the existing variants, that is. But it’s only those existing variants the vaccine will be good for. We also agreed that death counts are already at background levels, especially in your neck of the woods.
“I suppose so.”
So we needn’t wait for a vaccine to return to our old way of lives. We can do so now, yes?
“No. I still insist we stay in a state of emergency until the vaccine saves us all.”
Can’t talk you out of it?
“No, you can’t.”
Well, thank you for talking to me today, Governor Boris Whitmer. It’s been a pleasure.
“The pleasure was all mine.”
Polio
The Blonde Bombshell recommends this interesting thread about polio, and the polio vaccine. I’m too ignorant on the subject to know what I don’t know, so I’ll let better educated readers critique it.
1. The polio story as you learned it is wrong. It’s one of the most often misunderstood sequence of events in the last two hundred years. I wanted to explain a few things about the disease to help people understand what actually happened. pic.twitter.com/xT7YjIb4kZ
— Forrest Maready (@forrestmaready) June 8, 2018
Gist: infantile paralysis was rare to nonexistent, then, after introduction of certain pesticides, many and not just polio viruses attacked chemically weakened spinal cords. The vaccines were not terribly effective, given more than one virus attacks. The problem (polio) went away after the pollutants were banned or barred. Except in so-called developing countries which still now have an infantile paralysis problem and for the same reasons, even with vaccine use. The polio vaccine is somewhat helpful, but not nearly completely.
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My doctor would disagree with your opening volley—he got the flu even with the flu shot. That’s one reason why they really never push the “vaccine”. (Unlike most vaccines, flu shots do not impart lasting immunity. We need a different term for “seasonal” immunity versus actual lasting immunity.)
Actually, negative worth is HIGHLY unlikely. Enough people will be protected by the boost in their immune response and the similarity of the the viruses that negative will not occur. Try not to exaggerate…..(Does being sick for six months count as harm?)
People react to a whole lot of things. That argument is frankly just stupid. If you outlawed everthing I react to, you can kiss over half a dozen antibiotics, some narcotic pain killers, and one type of insulin goodbye. Just because I need to have an epipen handy in no way means the drug is bad. Nor does being sick six months after the last flu shot. It just means I shouldn’t take them.
Seriously, pesticides and polio? You couldn’t stick with the actual explanation that makes scientific sense????
You ran off the rails on this one….Been reading too much Jon Rappoport again?
I am very interested in the poilo disucssion – we have spent so much time om the germ theory of disease we have neglected the very real possibilities of the changes to the body’s evironment which allows or prevents those germs from affecting us. Thre is strong evidence that gut flora affects nearly every aspect of our bodies – mood, hunger, metabolism, etc. Why would it not also change our susceptibility to various viruses?
The polio-pesticides link does seem quite a reach. The polio vaccine was approved in 1955 presumably because it was effective. What pesticides were banned or barred ca 1955? DDT, e.g., one of the most widely used pesticides, wasn’t banned until 1972. Nearly 20 years later.
Polio and pesticides? I’d like to hear more on that, as I’ve never heard of it before. Goes without saying I have some doubts about its validity.
A dear friend, “K”, now in his seventies, has “post-polio” syndrome and has spent the better part of his life with crutches and a wheelchair. When K was a young boy in the midwest, he and some friends were playing in a large creek, and one of the boys bullied him into drinking creek water from his shoe. Soon thereafter, K was deathly ill with polio, and spent at least one year in an iron lung, like those in that photo.
Post-polio syndrome means his nerves continue to deteriorate, and the less he uses his muscles, the better, because using his muscles wears them out instead of making them stronger.
I don’t know about the pesticide issue, but Polio is an actual thing, and the vaccine is a Godsend for this virus. Without knowing much of the science, it appears that some viruses, such as Polio and Smallpox, are totally wiped out by vaccines, while others, such as Coronaviruses and HIV, are not.
In 2019 alone, some 700,000 people died of AIDS-related illnesses, worldwide, from HIV. Millions have died from this terrible virus, and yet there’s still no vaccine, nor any demand for quarantines or contact tracing. I understand that Dr. Fauci was put in charge of the AIDS virus, too, very early on, although he treats that “pandemic” a little differently and always has done. Indeed, California recently de-criminalized the knowing transmission of HIV.
Sadly for all of us, Medical Science is now as politicized as Climate Science. Thanks for another thought-provoking column, Dr. Briggs.
Maready is a loon. There’s no other way of putting it.
I was kinda waitin’ for CDQ to weigh in on the polio thing
I CAN see environmental factors increasing susceptibility, but…
There. is no 100% protection from a vaccine. There are also those who have side effects just as with any medicine or input.
What the vaccine is intended to do is to prevent or lessen the effects of the disease in part, by preparing the system for the infection.
It will be the same for some or many of the vaccines developed for this disease, which isn’t a flu strain.
Influenza is a coronavirus. Covid is a strain of corona virus not a strain of flu.
Makes no difference, vaccines are not all intended or designed or used for the identical effect. Some give temporary immunity, some lessen symptoms to prevent serious illness, some “injections” are prophylactic, allowing perhaps elderly to have access with family members.
If you don’t want a vaccine don’t have one. There are enough who take up the flu vaccines.
I always have a flue vaccine when I’m working.
I caught swine flu when it was first around, at least that was what was assumed. New diseases are easy to avoid when you don’t have to go near anyone.
The fear over the vaccine is just more fear of the unknown and the usual opportunity to demonstrate fear and mistrust.
Another important thing to recognise is that one of the reasons people live as long as they do is due to infection control and vaccination for flu and pneumonia. Your loved ones have most likely benefited from the preventative measures of others in providing herd immunity. Being amongst others who are protected will protect you. If you choose to abstain.
“It will be the same for some or many of the vaccines developed for this disease, which isn’t a flu strain.
Influenza is a coronavirus. Covid is a strain of corona virus not a strain of flu.”
Am I the only one who doesn’t understand what you’re trying to say?
This virus is simply not deadly enough to justify taking a vaccine rushed to market without all normal safety protocols, with Big Pharma being given legal immunity from liability to boot. This virus would have to be about 100 times more lethal to justify the potential risks of vaccine rushed to market like this for the cast majority of people.
And a Big Pharma money-making scam is what this whole plandemic has been about anyway (and indeed of the whole modern vaccine regime, which has spiraled out of control even since I was a kid. I saw a study a while back that said the average kid in my age group received about 8 vaccines growing up, versus over 25 now; and then there’s the way the annual flu vaccine is now stridently marketed and pushed on everyone, including kids) – that and curtailments of personal liberty, heightened mass surveillance, and mass socio-economic destruction in service to the ideological re-structuring of the world according to a far-Left agenda.
KGB,
Humans are not fish.
They are both vertebrates!
Covid is not the flu
Vaccination is developed with different effects and therefore they have different applications.
It is likely that there will be several vaccines which will have various levels of effectiveness and application in different groups of patients.
I don’t only understand that from first principles as a clnician, I am quoting a virologist and vaccine experts.
So perhaps it’s news to you or you already knew?
The sentences are clear enough.
Perhaps you expect different kinds of comments which always agree and join in with the banter?
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I have no major issues with this post.
Re polio, we have mostly replaced the wild virus with the vaccine virus. Yes, there always will be individual variation in these things. New people are born every day. Old people die every day. Our biological bodies live one hour at a time. The very processes that guide growth and development from the single fertilized ovum to an adult are the same processes that will result in death.
A major goal with the influenza vaccine isn’t so much preventing you from catching it. One is to have your immune system primed so you can fight it sooner and make you potentially less infective, have a shorter and milder case if you do get infected. Most importantly, it is given to minimize your risk of a secondary bacterial or fungal pneumonia, where *that* is a main risk of death. Even if they guess incorrectly about the strains, cross-immunity is a thing.
Yes, antibody dependent is an issue with vaccines. It is also an issue with natural infections, too; though that varies from infection to infection and varies from host to host.
The natural world is *full* of poisons. Every successful organism alters its local environment to enhance its own survival. Every organism carries within it chemical means of dealing with these; but these will have a limit to them. What makes a chemical poison is dose and route of administration. Same makes a chemical a medicine.
See CDQ’s third paragraph.
As to the polio article…I’m staggered anybody takes it seriously.
The article is a straw man, a red herring, starting with the first sentence.
I don’t believe people are so ignorant that they thought the vaccine was going to be a life long “cure”.
The article presupposes that’s what people think.
A level of ignorance is demanded in order that people “must agree” or else. “right”?
Why are readers here surprised to find this idiotic polio-pesticide hoax repeated on this site? After all, this same person lends credence to QAnon fantasies. So if you believe that there is a nest of Democratic pedophile cannibals hiding in the basement of a pizza restaurant that has no basement, why not believe that the banning of pesticides reduced polio before they were banned?
Shhh. Don’t tell them about this:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vaccines-produce-homosexuality-gay-gian-paolo-vanoli_n_2992953
https://youtu.be/QBW5QiwSwZU
This lady has two children and a fifty two year old husband who has life changing effects from the virus.
One day, those of you who are putting spanners in the works of the response to this epidemic will be requiring help. You will naturally expect it to be there. Yet you have picked a war with the very individuals who are there to help and for the vast majority of health professionals, there’s no debate.
For clarity whe I say “the article” I am talking about the post of today.
When i say Polio I mean Polio.
Lee Phillips is right. Fair is fair.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8771899/Kate-Garraway-says-tough-week-husband-Derek-Draper.html
Yeah, always good to base public health policy – and the mass destruction of civil liberties (did you see the UK police punching and pushing and old woman to the ground the other day for protesting government policy?; meanwhile the same police got on their knees before BLM protests!; and guess which protest the Muslim mayor of London was angry about?), and deliberate socio-economic devastation, and the re-ordering of society on a cherry-picked one-in-1.5 billion case (literally – read the article; it says docs estimate he’s one of 5 people in the entire world to have had such an extreme response to Covid) presented by media (of whom the wife is a colleague – no coincidence there!) in a sentimentalised, low-information fashion without any context (what are his underlying conditions, and what was his overall health status prior to Covid, for example? He certainly doesn’t look a picture of health in the article photo taken a year ago. Had the article not stated his age, based on the photo I’d have guessed at least 8-10, maybe 12, years older than he is).
Once can always find bizarre, outlier cases for any illness, but that’s not a sound basis for public policy in general, or even specifically as a public health response to the illness in question.
Joy is back, pretending that she’s saying something we all haven’t responded to a million times over again!
This time she goes with the classic “When you’re sick you’ll be sorry!”
Perhaps she’ll be somewhat surprised to learn that we are not just unmoved, but unimpressed by the appeal to emotion.
Next, she’ll quote a big scary number then sit on it like she’s got us eggheads now!
Also, for those criticizing Briggs for even posting the thread about Polio, perhaps you missed this part: ” I’m too ignorant on the subject to know what I don’t know, so I’ll let better educated readers critique it.”
Nowhere does he say he agrees with the theory. Perhaps it’s incorrect, but, just as with the sudden surge in “autism” cases over the last 30 years (which many believe to be vaccine-related), perhaps the rise of Polio over the course of the 19th and early 20th Centuries also bears some looking into.
Given how much we’ve been lied to by governments and media about nearly everything people think they just “know” – including so much about modern medicine promoted by Big Pharma, vaccines, etc. – I don’t take anything at face value any more, and appreciate those willing to look at any and all alternative explanations. “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio…”
“The sentences are clear enough.
Perhaps you expect different kinds of comments which always agree and join in with the banter?”
Not at all, it’s just that the sentences I highlighted don’t seem to make any sense. You seem to be saying simultaneously that Covid-19 is not “the flu” because it’s a corona virus, but that corona viruses are the flu. I know you’re in the UK, but is English your mother tongue?
“This lady has two children and a fifty two year old husband who has life changing effects from the virus.
One day, those of you who are putting spanners in the works of the response to this epidemic will be requiring help. You will naturally expect it to be there. Yet you have picked a war with the very individuals who are there to help and for the vast majority of health professionals, there’s no debate.”
Someone got sick, therefore you evil b—–ds will be sorry you haven’t submitted humbly to the use of a jackhammer on centuries of Western civilization!
Joy, you say there’s no debate, but you neglect to tell us the proposition which has been settled in your favor. Can we start there and then have the debate? How about that? Some of us happen to believe we were placed on this earth for a greater purpose than merely collapsing into bed each night and sighing to ourselves, “wheeew! I made it one more day without dying.”
Malcom,
You are projecting and you’re no egghead, either.
Whether you’ll be sorry is up for debate. I doubt it, in your case.
You seem to be saying simultaneously that Covid-19 is not “the flu” because it’s a corona virus, but that corona viruses are the flu
I could be wrong but she seems to be saying “the flu” is a type of coronavirus and so is COVID-19 but ‘”the flu’ is not COVID-19.
Similar to
Apples are fruit
So are oranges
But apples aren’t oranges.
COVID-19 is not influenza according to this but I have no idea
https://www.ynhhs.org/patient-care/urgent-care/flu-or-coronavirus
Yes Dav, thank you.
They are both in the same category as coronaviruses but aren’t the same ‘stains’. That word tends to be reserved for mutations or types of the same virus.
I have a link, somewhere.
It looks like our esteemed host finally has been banned… @FamedCelebrity’s account is temporarily unavailable because it violates the Twitter Media Policy. Learn more.
https://youtu.be/3BdPKpWbxTg
Seems although they are respiratory Bourne infections Influenza is a separate virus classification. Not even a coronavirus, I infer from the following, so the classification is not quite as I described. Sorry for the confusion but Dav’s explanation of my meaning was correct.
Here is a simple and early days explanation of the disease and the possible responses. Nobody is claiming anything new, here, but what was known early on in January/February would apply to this lecture and there can be no claims of a revelatory nature about what was already known. That is generally the point I’m often making. Ironically the same one as Malcom keeps making but we are on different sides of the debate about the response.
Minute 9:30
The classification is based on which type of receptor it engages with. Ace 2, in the case of corona viruses. The corona part is a description of the crown shaped protein projections on the outside of the viral cell.
Now I’m going home so won’t be able to respond for a few days. If we’re locked down again and the music stops I’m not getting caught a second time.
My parents need me and I miss them
That’s a pathogen that affects the brain, causing one to forget that one used to be a secret agent, and wondering how one knows karate.
We’ve never made a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. This is why it’s so difficult
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616
Joy,
I’m not projecting. I don’t think less of anyone who disagrees, but I do get annoyed when somebody restates things that have already been responded to many times as if they’re novel objections. But that’s your MO. It’s pretty much all you do.
I uses “eggheads” so as not to be crass. You think far worse of us than that – you’ve openly stated you think we don’t care about the sick and suffering as much as people like you. My contempt for you doesn’t go that far – I just think you’re a lazy interlocutor who continues to make poor points and is condescending, though probably without realizing it. Either way I’m calling you out for it.
And I know, I get it, your next play is to pretend that I “care about this way too much”. Don’t be concerned on my account, I’ll sleep tonight.
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Flu’s are predominately rhinoviruses, common cold, Sars, Mers, are cronoviruses. Sars and
Mers are both lab creations as is Covid 19. The only really interesting question that remains is
was the release accidental. The good news is that Covid 19 is just not that lethal and humanity’s
natural immune response is more than a match. The over the top PR response points to this
being anything but accidental and there may be significant pockets of disappointment among
those preparing to vaccinate the world.
Project G-2101: Pentagon biolab discovered MERS and SARS-like coronaviruses in bats
https://armswatch.com/project-g-2101-pentagon-biolab-discovered-mers-and-sars-like-coronaviruses-in-bats/
Insane that Twitter has suspended Briggs, but par for the course these days for anyone who refuses to march in lockstep with the pre-determined Narrative.
Nothing to see here…
Scientists Compare Novel Coronavirus with SARS and MERS Viruses
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/scientists-compare-novel-coronavirus-to-sars-and-mers-viruses-67088
Dennis: I agree with your saying this is heading for market way too fast. “Big Pharma” is a great conspiracy theory that people just love. I’m hoping you believe in “Big Natural”, “Big Renewables” and “Big *fill in your hated industry*”. As I have noted before, BIG DAY CARE and greedy working moms caused the vaccine increase. Hate on them. They also caused the massive use of antibiotics for ear infections and any little sniffle.
Joy: People have life-changing reactions and outcomes all the time. Unless you can homogenize humanity and make our genetics all alike, it will remain that way. I have multiple risk factors if I were to get Covid, but I’m not going to panic. I have a greater chance of injury or death in a car accident.
As if Covid wasn’t enough, one more thing to be terrified about:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/28/texas-brain-eating-amoeba-lake-jackson-boil-advisory-josiah-mcintyre/3559790001/
Lee’s comment made me think of this. I guess Steven King was right, it is in the water.
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This is an excerpt from my book, Butchered by Healthcare, now available on a free promtion at Amazon (see link at bottom). Based on industry past performance, we will never have an effective COVID vaccine. Influenza is self-limited to a few weeks and rarely causes fatality or long-term disability. Treatment and prevention are part of the latest trend to profitably medicate less severe diseases.
The corporations and their paid supporters claim Tamiflu decreases flu symptoms and prevents complications such as pneumonia. But the best estimate of benefit is that it may save a half-day of sickness per individual per dose when prescribed immediately after the start of symptoms. This is nearly impossible. The FDA’s longstanding opinion is that Tamiflu did not affect complications, hospital admissions, or survival. It prohibited the manufacturer from making these claims.
A 2014 Cochrane review concluded the drug was worthless. They included many studies not sponsored by industry. Two meta-analyses said risks were higher than the benefits. Within a day of getting the drug, panic attacks, delusions, convulsions, and even suicide have been reported. Complete information is scarce, however. Study data withheld by the manufacturer would reveal the entire truth, but so far, there have been no legal challenges to get it. Industry sources, including John Bell (Professor of Medicine at Oxford), stonewalled Cochrane’s requests for access to Roche’s unpublished Tamiflu studies. He was on the board of directors for Roche, and they paid him €322,450 in 2011.
Well-referenced reviews in the Huff Post and the Atlantic report that Tamiflu does not decrease the chances of pneumonia or other severe illnesses. They also describe the obscene marketing—or rather mongering—by Hoffmann-La Roche and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Despite all this, the medication had $18 billion in sales (2017). The US, Britain, and other countries were somehow cajoled into stockpiling billions of dollars’ worth.
The CDC itself is compromised by millions of dollars in pharmaceutical company donations. They claim, however: “Our planners and our content experts wish to disclose they have no financial interests or other relationships with the manufacturers of commercial products… [the] CDC does not accept commercial support.”
The label scamiflu instead of Tamiflu went viral on the Internet. A UK National Health Service analysis (2014) agreed: “The modest benefits of Tamiflu… do not justify the increased adverse risks, let alone the money spent on them.” The WHO belatedly removed Tamiflu from their essential medications list in 2017.
The flu vaccine, just like Tamiflu, supposedly prevents pneumonia and other serious problems for those who are old or sick. Cochrane had grave doubts about this, however. They reviewed 90 flu vaccination studies and considered less than 10 percent of them decent science. Industry primarily funded the trials. Cochrane said:
Inactivated vaccines can reduce the proportion of healthy adults (including pregnant women) who have influenza and influenza-like-illness, but their impact is modest. We are uncertain about the effects of inactivated vaccines on working days lost or severe complications of influenza during the flu season.
Despite this, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recommends the vaccine for nearly everyone and the World Health Organization (WHO) recommends it for vulnerable groups. Many hospitals shame nurses who refuse to get vaccinated into wearing surgical face masks, and a few even get fired. This is a $4 billion industry worldwide, and $1.6 billion is spent in the US.
–Robert Yoho, MD
https://www.amazon.com/Butchered-Healthcare-Doctors-Corrupt-Government-ebook/dp/B08FVMK5GY/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=robert+yoho&qid
The biggest changes in the incidence of deaths in diseases has come about by improved personal and public health, not as a reesult of vaccines. This is not to say that vaccines have no value.
DavidC
” “Big Pharma” is a great conspiracy theory that people just love.”
Not a conspiracy theory, but a simply shorthand term for a very corrupt industry, not only within itself, but with its ties to government and regulators, whom it suborns with massive ties creating conflicts of interest, from outright bribery in some cases, to campaign contributions, lobbying money, to say nothing also of corruption of journalists, university research departments, and NGOS and other “non-profits” (sometimes those, like the Gates Foundation are actually drivers of the industry-wide corruption and manipulation) etc. One thing that should never have been allowed in this country is advertising for drugs, especially TV – and most countries think we are crazy to allow it (just as advertising for lawyers should never have been allowed).
Plenty of documentary evidence out there of the utter corruption of the pharmaceutical industry and the entire health care complex (just watch Plandemic 2 and for some good info and visuals about how the interconnected links between government, pharmaceutical companies, Gates foundation, even doctors themselves ultimately taking kickbacks from companies for promoting their drugs, etc. work).
There is no doubt to me that the main reason people like Fraudci, Gates, and many others around the world are pushing vaccines as the only hope of ever being able to return to normal life from Covid (Britain thinking again of re-instituting lockdowns – it was a mistake the first time, it’s sheer lunacy now), instead of herd immunity, targeted protective measures for the most vulnerable, and copious use of already available prophylactics and remedies such as HCQ, Zinc, and Vitamins D (which Fauci admitted he takes as well!) & C, is because there is no money to be made from the latter (oh there is, they aren’t free – as my own grocery bill for supplements attests – but such remedies are much cheaper than a fancy new patented vaccine rushed to market in the midst of ginned-up global hysteria, which can makes tens of billions hand-over-fist, especially when brainless government leaders sign contracts for hundreds of millions of doses before anything has even been approved or reached market). That’s the same reason the flu shot exists and why it is so hyped each year with heavy promotion – with the basic thing already in place, they can tweak quickly and cheaply tweak it a bit for “new strains” every year, promote it hard (even though it’s only about 50% effective), and watch the money roll in.
My two takes from reading the published scientific literature on Influenza and Human Corona-virus vaccines is..
1) The annual Influenza vaccine “success rates” published by the CDC range from the high teens to the mid fifties per cent. That’s as good as it gets. The population cohort most high risk, over 65’s, has never had any proper double blind control study done for the actual effectiveness of the annual flu’ vaccine. Given the greatly diminished response of the immune system of older people to vaccines the flu’ vaccine has likely a placebo levels of efficacy. Vaccines work great for kids and young people. Thats about it.
2) The published literature on human corona-virus vaccines (HCOV), especially SARs CoV 1, is a litany of failure. Low or no successes rate levels, very high rates of serious side effects. Plus HCOV’s are not as stable as influenza variants. They have the added bonus of some kind of vaccines giving rise to much more virulent mutations.
There is one success story with corona-virus. For some domestic animal diseases. My guess would be because domestic animals cannot sue in court in product liability lawsuits.
Malcom The Cynic:
Do you know what projection is? Read your comment and have a think about it.
You are completely wrong in almost everything you say in my direction.
What you wrote was pure projection on your part.
That, feminine trope works in two main ways,
A distraction from a point actually made, a side show, more noise, like this discussion right now;
A discredit of your Interlocutor/opponent, which is necessary if the discussion is straight forward
Do you assume others think the way you do? You are certainly way too sure about what you do not and cannot possibly know.
…
“I’m not projecting. I don’t think less of anyone who disagrees, “
You do, and it’s apparent from your responses to me in particular but projection is an invention within your own mind, a working assumption, a kind of model against which you are supposed to compare reality. Projection is a natural thing in complex communication. It’s not supposed to rule your thinking in the face of conflicting evidence.
…
“…but I do get annoyed when somebody restates things that have already been responded to many times as if they’re novel objections.”
So do I!
The problem is, that if someone makes a same point, the same error, then it will be continually corrected. One is regarding whether this virus IS the flu or not. It matters for other than simple classification purposes.
Points are made sometimes casually and sarcastically, sometimes deliberately or ignorantly to imply otherwise about the virus. In honest truth seeking debate, people will drop the sarcasm and the BS. I notice you never do. Then you want to be considered “caring more” or whatever it is you’re claiming about “caring”
…
“ But that’s your MO. It’s pretty much all you do.”
That’s not true either, no matter how many times you repeat it. What would be good is if you actually responded to the points instead of attacking the person. If you think they’re repeats, just ignore them.
…?I uses “eggheads” so as not to be crass.
It was crass writ large!
You appear to believe you’re extremely cleverer? Part of a “clever club” which is amusing if not a cack handed insult that is not entirely accidental?
…it’s a strange manner with which to approach an argument? You not only stop there but have an image or create on, of my saying something which I don’t even think. Then you get upset because I don’t accept your ideas!
…
What I think is stated in my comments. If you don’t understand, perhaps the problem is at your end. There are plenty of people who have no difficulty. I write deliberately choosing simple mini words, where there’s a choice. If you like I could knock it up a gear? Joint in properly? Say things like “Parse” and “as-chew”, or “gotten!” but they are a bit “American”.
“You think far worse of us than that – you’ve openly stated you think we don’t care about the sick and suffering as much as people like you. “
You see there you go again…projecting and claiming to read minds. I don’t lump people together Malcom, in the way that I would say many commenters of politics and statistics do. When it comes to identifying a person. I do assume that individuals would be very different in real life and that there are few who represent themselves honestly here or on any internet fora similar. You speak of “IUS” in a strange way that puts you in a crowd and the other outside of it. I don’t see any situation like that unless it’s stipulated as part of the entry requirements for a given discussion or debate.
What I have said, I stand by unless retracted otherwise. I don’t have to accept your depiction of my character and least of all what YOU think I think. That is some kind of irrational assumption on your part.
“My contempt for you doesn’t go that far – “
No?…just far enough? In a kind of perfect way?
“I just think you’re a lazy”
You don’t know me but you can think what you like. As you care to share it with me, I think we could say you have now made your point. Any more would be repetition?
…
Stating that something is a poor point is not to win a point or prove one.
It is not even an argument. It is a content free point where it comes to the matter under discussion.
What you’re trying to say but don’t really dare is something like,
“I don’t like you commenting because I don’t like what you write. “ So I dislike you, but in a very Goldilocks way. That’s my conjecture.
Welcome to the club, I’m perfect too.
…
“though probably without realizing it. Either way I’m calling you out for it.”
What’s with the without realising it? I don’t accept your depiction of me?
I’m calling you out for being a first class superfluous commenter, too!
…
And I know, I get it, your next play is to pretend that I “care about this way too much”.
Oh no, you only care about it just enough, in a kind of “correct” way.
“Don’t be concerned on my account, I’ll sleep tonight.”
Dunno what that’s supposed to have meant. I haven’t given your sleep patterns a thought, not once, honest.
…
As briggs used to say:
“Far too many people are far too certain of far too many things”
I can almost guarantee that 99% of the those on here that are criticizing the polio-pesticide link havent bothered to read a single page of Maready’s book(s)… rather they just *know* he’s crazy because they know… no argument or science needed. Or else they know someone who had polio (appeal to emotion) and how truly frightening it was (appeal to fear) and therefore we needed the polio vaccine to defeat polio in the same way we need a Corona vaccine to defeat the fear and emotion around this… meanwhile, Briggs keeps hitting back with the actual numbers… and Maready and others have hit the polio myth with actual numbers, graphs, timelines, and anecdotal evidence (e.g. polio cases frequently didnt have a virus present on post-mortem; polio is better labeled a symptom which is caused by multiple things; polio was seasonal – ramping up in the spring and dying out in the fall; the vaccine was a disaster in the mid-50s… Sabin’s oral vaccine didnt come out till 1963. Polio was WAY, way down by then from the high in 1952,53…)
Like coronadoom, it would be helpful if people would actually open their mind to think – and maybe demonstrate that they’ve read something – instead of just reacting…
Joy,
*Starts off with a long section on what projection is*
I get it, thanks. No, I was not projecting.
You do, and it’s apparent from your responses to me in particular but projection is an invention within your own mind, a working assumption, a kind of model against which you are supposed to compare reality. Projection is a natural thing in complex communication. It’s not supposed to rule your thinking in the face of conflicting evidence.
I am going to point this out:
On a thread where you claim that the views I attribute you (“attribute” meaning “the views you actually have, expressed in your writing, which I do frequently quote”) are actually projection, you straight up just point blank call me a liar so that you can give the response you want.
No Joy, I don’t think less of ANYBODY who disagrees. I think less of you, in this context, for the specific reasons I mentioned. If you think otherwise, you’re incorrect.
The problem is, that if someone makes a same point, the same error, then it will be continually corrected. One is regarding whether this virus IS the flu or not. It matters for other than simple classification purposes.
So you honestly think Dr. Briggs is unaware that this virus is LITERALLY the flu? In this case you have a much lower opinion than all of us then we thought. The point is that the disease is ANALOGOUS. Why is it analogous to the flu? For the many, many reasons he keeps bringing up that you keep ignoring.
Points are made sometimes casually and sarcastically, sometimes deliberately or ignorantly to imply otherwise about the virus. In honest truth seeking debate, people will drop the sarcasm and the BS. I notice you never do.
I think I was sarcastic in response to you one time? That was my last response. My tone being disrespectful – since I don’t respect you, in this specific context – is not the same as my tone being sarcastic. This response, for example, is not sarcastic.
Then you want to be considered “caring more” or whatever it is you’re claiming about “caring”
Ah, I see: You didn’t actually read my responses at all. You don’t even know what I said! That explains everything.
You see there you go again…projecting and claiming to read minds.
Joy, I QUOTED you in the past saying this stuff. I don’t care that you want to avoid the implications of what you say. I’m sorry you want me repeatedly digging through the comments to re-post that same quote over and over again, but you ignored it the first time. In fact, you admit – earlier in this comment, I quoted you word for word – that you don’t even know what I’m trying to say. What are you responding to, then?
You don’t know me but you can think what you like.
You’re correct: Perhaps in the real world you’re the hardest working Saint in existence.
I do, however, know what you comment on this blog. You’re a lazy commenter. Because you just ignore or don’t address points that contradict your narrative. Perhaps it’s because you spend the majority of time taking care of sick children. I’m happy to hear it. Your comments are still poorly thought out and rude.
You don’t recognize that they’re rude because, I suppose, you make an attempt to use polite language. Good on you, I guess, but the language you use isn’t the issue: The substance is. You don’t seem to realize that what you say has implications.
So far everything I’ve said about you I’ve made an effort to limit to what you’ve revealed in the comments. I’ve even been very careful of my wording in that regard. You have made no such effort: The conclusions you’ve jumped to about me have been far wilder and more condescending. Yet unlike me, you’re less direct about it, so don’t realize the implications of what you’re saying.
Here is a start: Why do you think Dr. Briggs keeps comparing this to past flu epidemics? IS it because he’s misleading people? Or does he have a good reason? What is that reason? Do you know it? Because he’s said precisely why, many times.
Either the permanent coup against Trump will die or he will.
A medical hit on Trump in a Military Hospital, while the world is watching as the 68ers used to say, would be an exquisite hit, no?
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/10/03/trump-in-danger-the-test-the-experimental-drugs/