Statistics

Coronavirus Update XXVII: The Central Fallacy of the Panic: Updates

See the new analysis at the bottom, prompted by a question from Joe Bastardi.

Update I have two words for the people who did this. You know what they are.

“…and the strange thing was that most welcomed their submission. They had surrendered to and cherished their fear to such an extent that anything done to them in the name of safety was accepted.” –Future historian.

Update There are still a few men left.

Prediction: they’ll ignore him.

Obey Your Mother

Here we sit at the week 27 update—twenty-seven weeks! A bit more, really, since we started late, not realizing the full scope of the panic that was to come.

I don’t speak of the number of deaths, which were always expected to be in the same range of other outbreaks in the last century, and are. I originally guessed at the lower end; they turned out to be larger than average. Didn’t beat the Asian Flu (2 million) or Hong Kong Kung Fluey (1 million), though it came close to that one. Didn’t beat AIDS (33 million). No. I mean I didn’t foresee the global-sized out-of-proportion panic in response to this wholly expected not-at-all unusual pandemic, a panic best described as Hersteria!

Hersteric, n., adj., an unduly panicked woman or effeminate man; the irrational state of hersteria; see also karen.

Most countries panicked. Not only did they panic, they ratcheted up the hersteric response as the virus ebbed: the better conditions got biologically, the worse they became mentally. One example of far too many:

Here was the true state of the coronadoom crisis in the UK the same day the announcement of further punishments for not panicking were announced:

That “0” at the end is zero deaths.

You would think graphs like this would be trumpeted across the land, eagerly claimed by politicians as resulting from their diligent and tireless efforts to “battle” the virus. Didn’t happen. Instead, the opposite did. These graphs are forgotten, and when mentioned, ignored. Strike that. Not ignored: angrily received.

How dare you suggest things are getting better when it’s clear the virus is raging! That is not an unusual response. It is hersterical and comes from those who believe their fear is protective. If they give up on their fear, they believe they are sure to become infected. This is rank superstition. Update See the response of Sylvain below for confirmation of this (no lockdowns in 2009 with lower deaths he forgets; deaths are not at 1000 per day, etc. etc.).

We come to the central fallacy of the coronadoom response. It is the belief the infection would not have spread and would not have killed, like all other pandemics throughout all human history have, if only the government were “allowed” to act. Mysterious political forces kept it from acting, which cost lives. Nature had nothing, or little, to do with the bug. Nature didn’t cause its spread, and Nature had no real responsibility in any deaths, and it is said with adamantine certainty that Nature could not and is not making the bug disappear (i.e. herd immunity). In a democracy, particularly a Godless matriarchal one, everything is political.

We know this is a fallacy because of both history and the results of various government responses. What can be shown (below) is that government actions have caused extra deaths, the UK being the most prominent case, but also New York and other states which crammed sick people into nursing homes.

Pointing to countries, or the eight (then seven, after Arkansas freaked out) states inside the US, which did not lockdown and did not mandate masks, but which did fine or as well or better than anybody else, is just as useless as pointing to graphs showing declining deaths. Say “Japan never locked down, and the shape of the death curve looks no worse than anywhere else, even better. And how about South Dakota: never locked down, and had a very low death rate?”, and you will receive only a blank stare.

Or you will hear the irrelevant news that areas which are seeing the virus spread for the first time are reporting deaths. A person in New York, where the number of deaths has dropped to 0 or near 0, will hear reports of deaths in Arizona or, say, Peru, and believe those reports apply to her and her risk.

There are, of course, many reasons for the hersterical response. No one reason predominates, but there are certain notable trends.

The state becoming a helicopter mother is the most obvious. Private institutions, too. Albion College will require students to install tracking apps, just like in 1984, to “protect” them from coronadoom. Tennessee bruited then tucked away a plan to have secret police do “well being” checks on every child in the state. These examples are due to the rise of the matriarchy.

It’s clear one large difference between coronadoom and the Swine flu, and the outbreaks before it, was that global communications ability increased tenfold and more from 2009 until now. This allowed the day-by-day hour-by-hour even minute-by-minute broadcast of updates of new infections and deaths from locations most people had never heard of, and will never go to. This never before happened in all of history.

Another: Many rulers appear to have settled on a zero tolerance policy, another new twist. It’s got so bad that negative tests have become positives because feelings. “Flattening the curve” has long vanished from consideration, and deaths, the best indication, are now meaningless. Instead eliminating the virus is the only goal allowed in several jurisdictions. There can be no more effeminate response than a demand to eliminate “all” risk.

Consider, if you disagree, your reaction to this statement: Just forget it about and go about your business as usual, just like in 2009 and earlier.

A Stroll In NYC

This update is already overly long, so feel free to skip this short section.

Six weeks ago I went to a library book sale on the upper east side of Manhattan, and bought some books from the friendly ladies who volunteer there. Then (regular readers will recall) I went Up North. It was that time away from the city that allowed me to see the differences in behavior clearly.

This weekend I tried to get back into the library, but it is now closed because, the sign says, of coronadoom.

Around the Fourth of July, mask wearing in the city was about half, an increase over April and May, the time most deaths were recorded, but when most were not wearing masks. In March, the only people with masks were Asians. But now, masks are on about 19 out of 20 people. Perhaps even more. It is an astonishing sight to see, and depressing.

Here is the true state of the coronadoom crisis in New York.

This is attributed deaths over the entire state, not just the city. There is no crisis. But the fear is now palpable.

I will tell you more anecdotes, which some of you will not believe, since I am a skeptic. You will say I exaggerate, and my swearing that I am not will mean little. So I invite any reader who can do it to walk the streets (unmasked) for themselves and verify, or disprove, what I say.

Monday (yesterday) morning I walked to the East River to play with my radio (I’m a ham). A masked lady pulled her dog to the side on the bridge, pinning it. I thought at first it was because the dog might be rambunctious, which doesn’t worry me, dogs seeing me as one of their own. She waited until I passed and continued on. I watched. She passed half a dozen other people, all masked, and did not stop for any of them.

Only 8 out of 10 people jogging, of which there were many, were masked. Yes, masked joggers. It was hot and sunny.

One lady jogger approached my bench; at maybe thirty yards away, she pulled up her mask. She pulled it down again ten paces or so after she passed me. This happened twice, only the distances varying slightly.

New Yorkers used to be famous for being gruff. They would not look away when you looked them in the eye. No longer. Many now avoid the gaze of the unmasked, the virus presumably transmissible via eye rays.

I was walking north and a masked man was heading east, and we were nearing a collision point at the intersection. The man stopped ten yards short of the intersection and waited for me to pass. I cannot emphasize strongly enough how unusual this is. In pre-virus days it was a game to see how close you could get to somebody without hitting. “Be afraid!” I shouted, walking away.

I tried to get into the elevator with an old lady, but she yelled at me. Only one person is allowed in the elevator at a time.

Incidentally, all restaurants in Manhattan that were not forced to close forever are now outside. The same nervous people who think the unmasked will surely infect them have no trouble at all walking by people sitting and eating maskless. The virus cannot travel upwards, I guess.

It’s not all bad. I walked by an old lady using a walker, her assistant standing nearby. The old lady, her age alone making her vulnerable, had no mask anywhere in sight. I smiled at her and got one in return.

I have many more stories, but that’s enough.

The Numbers

Sources: daily tests, CDC official toll number one, number two (CDC has two official sources that have differences). The media reports are always greater than CDC numbers.

Alas, there is some bad news. Daily tests have increased from last week:

There is high variability in daily numbers, so we can ignore the late up-and-down spike. But we can’t ignore the increase, which will lead to more reports of “new” “cases”, thus more nervousness, thus more tests, and so on back to the beginning.

Last week we learned California proposed paying people $1,250 for testing positive, or $5,000 for a family of four. I’d get the test for that amount. The Atlantic now advocates cheap tests—which will hugely drive up false positives—and giving these cheap tests multiple times. With the zero tolerance policy mentioned above, this will ensure the crisis never ends. As in never. Until they force people to take a vaccine. Just as they never did ever in human history for a flu-like virus.

Where are the test increases? At least in New York, Texas, California, and Arizona.

Arizona, for example, makes some sense, as attributed deaths have increased slightly there. New York does not, as we saw.

Here as usual are the official CDC weekly coronadoom attributed deaths:

No surprises for us. Finally, here are the weekly all-cause deaths from the two official CDC sources:

Quoting myself:

The three dots mark the last three weeks, and indicate the newer official source, which tracks both attributed coronadoom and all-cause deaths (it takes up to eight weeks to count all deaths, but by three the totals are usually close to the final values). The dashed line are the all-cause deaths minus official attributed coronadoom, and are thus all the deaths from other things (they say). The minor blip in the dashed line are deaths caused probably by the government trying to fix the situation (increase in suicides, untreated cancers, etc. etc.).

The two official sources are now in rough agreement. Even given late reporting, it’s clear there is no longer any crisis. By which I do not mean there are no deaths. There are always deaths! It’s only now, at this point in our history, we have the expectation there should be none.

New Analysis

Let’s compare the last three years, ignoring, at first, population increase.

Here are the cumulative all cause deaths, for 2018, 2019, and 2020, from weeks 1 to 32.

The cumulative number (again, ignoring population increase and the problem whether the people who crossed the border illegally are counted) is the same for all three years up to about Week 11 to 13 or so.

This plot “normalizes”, if you like, the ordinary flu spike. There is a bump up starting in Week 15 in 2020, and continuing a bit until Week 32, the last week available as of this writing. The dip at the end of 2020 is as above, and due to late counting.

It would be a mistake to say the increase is caused by coronadoom. Some of it is; some of it is caused by government. We don’t need to separate them yet.

Here’s a different way to look at it. This is the difference in weekly deaths, 2020 minus either 2018 or 2019.

Again, the difference around Week 12 or so is clear, as is the difference in early weeks in 2018—but then we recall the flu was bad then. Once again, the dip at the end is due to late reporting.

But if we sum the differences between Week 12 (when divergence begins) to Week 30 (before drop off), we get 189,000 for 2018 and 166,000 for 2019. (Once we add in Weeks 31 and 32 after the reports are updated, these figures will change). The CDC estimates by Week 32 there were 151,559 coronadoom deaths (so far).

In other words, from 166 to 189 thousand represents the “excess deaths” because of the coronadoom crisis, either due to the bug itself, or due to government “solutions” (nursing home deaths, increase in suicides, untreated fatal heart attacks, etc.). If we accept the CDC’s official figure, then the government caused about 10-20% of “excess” deaths, coronadoom the rest (it’s worse for the government, because this doesn’t count coronadoom exacerbation from nursing home deaths, etc.).

Now by Week 30, there were 1,667,277 total deaths in 2018, 1,659,227 in 2019, and 1,834,156 in 2020. Population increased about 1 million per year during this time (of citizens; illegals, who knows). So we’d expected roughly 30/52 * 1 million = 577 thousand more people by the 30th week each year. Population in 2018 was about 326.8 million by Week 30, and in 2019 it was 327.8 million, and it was about 328.2 million in 2020.

Thus the rate of dead to total bodies by Week 30 was: 0.510% in 2018, 0.506% in 2019, and 0.558% in 2020 (note the decimal point!). So even accounting for population increase (but possibly not illegals) we have a relative increase of anywhere from 9.5 to 10% more deaths for by Week 30, and an absolute increase anywhere from 0.048-0.052%. Crude estimates, of course.

Remind me how many people went out of business, lost their jobs, how much the government spent, and so on and so forth?

To support this site and its wholly independent host using credit card or PayPal (in any amount) click here

Categories: Statistics

66 replies »

  1. Actually, Bill Gates advocates for more tests using HIS cheap tests. He’s also counting on panic and death to sell HIS vaccine. Bill Gates lives for money via the death and destruction of others. The Devils walk among us with plenty of zeros after their names.

    Over a million people have AIDS and the reponse was to reduce knowingly spreading AIDS without informing a person you are infected from a felony to misdemeanor in California. This is the SAME penalty in most states FOR NOT WEARING A MASK. A chronic, perhaps fatal disease, can be spread with the same penalty as failure to wear a mask….. Oh, and you don’t have to wear a mask WHILE spreading AIDS. Two crimes for the price of one.

    Notice that many, many sources of statistics no longer list “recovered”, leaving the insane idea there are millions WALKING AROUND WITH COVID everywhere you go. I noticed this when checking the latest stats. Many states leave “recovered” blank. (Of course the numbers of known cases, deaths and recovered NEVER did add up. There was an “in limbo” catagory left out, I guess.)

    When do we start adding in the thousands of murders now occurring in states with continual riots and no law enforcement, including just turning murderers loose? When do we add in the deaths due to insanity from Tyrants-be-Us leaders who want global full-on Stalin style living?

    I remind you again, CHINA only locked down one or two cities. CITIES. And the complete morons of the world took it to full countries. People were STUPID, IRRESPONSIBLE twits and obeyed. Again, America and the world does not deserve to be free. Oh, and Kudos to China for taking over the world with a common, ordinary-type virus labeled “novel”. Of course, years of willing stupidity on the part of the world helped. (Plan failed in Africa—damn that “malaria” medicine that has no effect on Covid. Never fear, another virus will appear there, mixed in with Ebola or something. Tyrants never leave a job half-done.)

  2. William, do you surmise that the excess deaths of 2020 are basically ‘displaced deaths’ ? As deaths appear to be plummeting below baseline, do you foresee an average deaths year when all the shouting is done ? Or perhaps still slightly above average due to deaths caused by lockdowns ?

  3. Perhaps the problem might be characterized not exactly as matriarchy, but as puellarchy (or, if one hazards a more purely Greek neologism, kopelarchy): the yielding of control to hysterical little girls of either sex and any age.

    Whatever the characterization, we seem singularly disinclined at this juncture of history to slap down the hysterical little girls and wrest control from them, so maybe we are all puellarchs now.

  4. Don’t forget the peak boomer “wave” is steadily approaching the *average age of death* (compared to Average Life Expectancy). This could play a role in y/y discrepancies as well.

    Respectfully,

    Your Friendly Neighborhood Funeral Director

  5. We need a new societal axiom.

    To maintain a free society in a flu outbreak, etc. collateral deaths must be accepted in order that greater overall damage will not occur.

  6. Also, conveniently, “hysteria” already has unhinged women in mind: https://www.etymonline.com/word/hysteria

    I don’t think it’s appropriate to apply Old Testament prophecy out of context to modern events, but I find it interesting that Isaiah 3 uses rule by children and women as a way to mock Israel’s situation:

    “My people—infants are their oppressors,
    and women rule over them.”

    I suppose Isaiah wasn’t very progressive. We could do with more like him today, in the Age of Whitmers and Cuomos.

  7. “I don’t speak of the number of deaths, which were always expected to be in the same range of other outbreaks…”

    You contradict yourself. On one hand, there is a global panic that shutdown the world. On the other hand, the number of death is at the lower end of all other pandemic in the last century.

    Yet:

    -no other pandemic had such a global and coordinated response to the epidemiological agent.
    -confinement was adopted across the world but for few exceptions like the USA, Sweden, Brazil.
    -frontiers have been shutdown across the world to a level that is exceptionally low, and now requires 2 weeks quarantine on the front end and back end of any trip.
    -mask mandate have been adopted in most countries around the world.

    Even if the world unnecessarily panicked as you say, the number of death are still in the lower end range of other pandemic that didn’t create any panicked reaction.

    But,

    -this pandemic is still raging with at least 1000 deaths per day in the USA.
    -there are still millions of active cases in the USA and growing.
    -about 170,000 death in the USA but only 1.5 % of population affected.
    -summer usually coincide with a reduction of cases.

    You should try your analysis with world-o-meter, which doesn’t have any lag in the reporting of cases or John Hopkins data.

  8. “ about 170,000 death in the USA but only 1.5 % of population affected.”

    You’ve said many things that would suffice to discredit yourself, but this is my favorite. Were this so, the IFR would be 5%. The CDC itself, on its own website, estimates an IFR around 0.3%. You don’t seem to know that “case” and “affected by” are not the same thing. I’m embarrassed for you.

    A close second though is “ no other pandemic had such a global and coordinated response to the epidemiological agent.”

    Coordinated like a panicked herd. How sophisticated and worthy of praise.

  9. It is clear, given that the fear and paranoia are ratcheting-up even as the virus recedes as a real concern (and never was truly that great to being with, being overblown from the start) that there is something far more evil and nefarious going on in the world. The utter irrationality of this intensified obsession with pointless masks, legal penalties for not advertising one’s irrational fear and submissive dolt-like nature in public by wearing a face muzzle, and the degree to which people mindlessly go along with it, is the most scary and insane mass phenomenon I have ever seen. It makes one long for the days of good old-fashioned “red scare” and fear of nuclear war – they were never so utterly awful, insane, and irrational as what we are seeing around the world today. I weep for the future of humanity – it is grim indeed.

    Part of it is the gross misrepresentation of the facts and data in the mainstream media, giving people wildly distorted views of reality. Many people just have no real clue. I saw a poll from the UK a couple weeks ago which showed that when asked to estimate the death toll as percentage of population, people routinely estimated between 5 & 10% – of the total population! – about 3-6 million dead they think in the UK alone so far! Likewise, I see people in media or on twitter simply divide known positive tests and by official deaths to get what they think is the “death rate,” which is always much higher than what proper scientists and epidemiologists know is the real IFR using proper methods of arriving at the figure, thus again giving people a hugely distorted view of their real risk. But the media and politicians thrive on the fear and paranoia, and the power that manipulating it gives them, so it won’t end.

    At least I’ve not encountered the extreme kind of behavior Brigg’s observed while out walking where I live. I often go to walk or read in several different parks nearby, and when passing each other on a path or something people don’t exaggeratedly go out of the way to avoid coming within a few feet of each other (the vast majority don’t wear masks in the park, thank God, though occasionally you come across a few dolts actually walking or sitting on a sunny park bench with masks; but at least I’ve never been harassed by a masker when passing by; I’ve not encountered problems when walking on sidewalks in my neighborhood either).

    Other than the parks, I simply don’t go anywhere else these days, so as to avoid any situation where I might be more likely to be harassed by a masker and get my blood boiling in response. I do all shopping by delivery or curbside pickup, and haven’t been back to the Half Price Books, which I used to frequent at least once a week, since they re-opened because of the mask rule (I can’t even remember the last time in my life when 6 months passed without stepping foot in a bookstore! It must have been before I could even read), and simply will not go inside anywhere where I am likely to be harassed about masks. The only place I go inside is to pick up Chinese takeout down the street once or twice a week. Though they wear masks themselves (otherwise the local mindless thugs called the government would probably try to shut them down, they never bother me).

    Perhaps Sophocles was right: best never to have been born, and second best to return quickly from whence one came. The world just isn’t worth the trouble, and there is no indication of things improving anytime soon.

  10. Pretty much everyone out there views their fellow men as disease vectors.

    It is absolutely demonically instigated. The enemy’s useful idiots have been using FLOODING on a scale not seen before and that’s saying something. The general population has been intentionally and effectively terrorized.

    Maskless numbers were actually improving modestly by my observations as well back before they launched the “kill Trump’s rallies” flood. Which corresponded with the complete tanking of actual COVID numbers.

    The dehumanized, mask-wearers, are the virtual universal norm. I do my best to be extra pleasant and smiling in public, but it’s hard when everyone treats everyone else like a disease vector.

    My TLM and pro-life buds are my one happy place where sanity and charity yet reigns.

  11. “Maskless numbers were actually improving modestly by my observations.”

    This was my observation as well. Throughout March through early July, I went to the grocery and Target about once a week and by the end of that time I’d estimate no more than about 50% of people were wearing masks, down from about 2/3-3/4 or so at the height of the initial panic in March-May. Then suddenly on July 10 the governor announced a mask mandate for all indoor areas where anti-social distancing couldn’t be followed, on grounds that the state was seeing an ominous “spike” in “cases” since re-opening throughout June, which was really just a massive increase in testing, but local media reports all positive tests as if they were active “cases,” never telling us how many were actually sick at all, how many had any serious symptoms, how many hospitalized, and bizarrely wondering why deaths were falling despite “cases” rising (as if they were upset by this, since it might undercut the Narrative of this being a uniquely deadly world-historical pandemic), etc. Apparently overnight between July 9 & 10, it became especially threatening and deadly for one to go grocery shopping without a muzzle, and people who had otherwise been acting relatively sane just meekly and mindlessly began following this inane and illegal “mandate” from a power mad, arrogant pisspot of a governor.

    It’s just sickening. Seeing the way governments and people are responding to this virus as compared to similar flu outbreaks in 1959, 1969, 2008-9, etc., makes one realize just how far in quality, intelligence, and sanity the general level of humanity has declined in recent decades, especially media and political “leaders” and “influencers” (and useful idiots who swallow and parrot the narrative, like Sylvain Allard). Though I can’t quite decide if we are just led by incompetent morons, or by the most cunningly diabolical people ever, who are executing a nefarious plan to perfection. Whichever, the ongoing consequences to mankind will be very grave, and the future looks dark indeed.

  12. Right now one of the targets of the media campaigns is closing down schools. It would be reckless to open schools and expose our children to the danger of death, or so various local and national outlets claim. Here in Minnesota there has been 1 (one) death of someone 19 years or younger. A total of 5 if we include everyone up to 29. That brings us to about .3% of all China Flu deaths in MN

    Going nationwide we have 49 deaths of those 14 or younger (less than 1 per state) and 281 of those 24 or younger (about 5 per state). That’s .2% of all China Flu deaths across the nation. Another way to look at it is that .02% of confirmed cases of COVID-19 in MN in ages 24 or less resulted in death. I couldn’t find case data from the CDC broken down by age but I imagine it would result in a similar case fatality rate. And of course this only accounts for confirmed cases; with the mild symptoms in children and the number of asymptotic carriers generally the true fatality rate for college age and younger is probably much lower.

    And yet I expect that schools meeting in person or in “hybrid” models will be forced to online only models by the end of September. This will happen due to one of two things:

    -Many districts are requiring regular testing of students as a requirement to attend school. This will dramatically increase the number of cases just by the huge increase in testing, which will be used as evidence that the virus is rampaging through young populations.

    -There will be a large party, sports event, etc. from some fraternity or just random students. This is guaranteed to happen because young people are participating in such events right now, before school gets into full swing. Photos of this event will be plastered across all newspapers and talked about every night during the evening news. It will be agreed upon that this sort of irresponsible behavior makes in person classes impossible.

    All of this despite a virtually nonexistent death rate among children. Because that won’t matter. People will be swayed merely by the idea that you COULD be putting children into danger. Even if it is an increase of .001% risk, that COULD mean that a child dies.

  13. I went to vote in the Republican primary this morning. There were those cute 6′ apart stickers on the floor, but no masks required. One of the workers put another sticker on the floor (she measured six feet by walking it off–said it was good enough for government work!!) so we weren’t all piled up by the door as was happening at the time and allowed us to spread out. BIC loves these people–used a new pen for every voter! I was assured they were highest quality, of course!! I checked the GOP website yesterday and it said we’re all adults and know enough to wear a mask if we need one. The polling place did follow this, much to my admiration.

    The post office had the usual list of what we need to do to “stay healthy” (what a farce). The employee was not wearing a mask, and none of the people there were either.

    As far as I know, Kroger is still insisting on masks, but I don’t know because I only use pickup. Albertson’s says they require one, but I ignore them. Home Depot has someone handing out masks but they are not required. Kroger and Albertson’s were virtue signaling crap BEFORE Covid, so no surprise there.

    So far this year in Wyoming, 49 road fatalities have occured as of Jul 2020 while 33 people have died of Covid. So, why the hell are we still driving???? Don’t the leaders care we are DYING???????

  14. The Pied Piper of Hamelin is a cautionary tale that perfectly sums up the current situation.
    Who is the most vulnerable but the inexperienced children that are led astray. The concerted
    efforts through mass media and education to dumb down the population bears fruit reducing
    a pliant and gullible population to penury and dependence. We’ve been here before.

  15. Rudolph: I’d imagine more people 18 or under have died of various other diseases, accidents, suicides, etc. this year than of Covid, but I suspect you are right about “hybrid” schools ending-up going full “virtual” soon anyway. My nieces start this week with an inane hybrid system where half-the school goes in-person two days a week, the other half another two days, with each half going “virtual” during the other’s in-person days, and the whole school virtual on Fridays. It’s absurd to begin with, but all it will take is for one single person – whether student, teacher, or staff – to simply test positive (even if asymptomatic) for the whole school to go into panic crisis mode and shut it all down. And given the national obsession with testing masses of asymptomatic people who are not sick and unlikely even to be “spreaders,” it’s basically inevitable that this will happen. All this “virtual learning” stuff is a farce anyway…they may as well just not bother opening at all (it only works well if you are a highly disciplined, self-motivated top-level student and/or have equally diligent and good parents at home enforcing quality study periods, otherwise it’s basically just a few online games and exercises before resuming playtime, and the all-virtual Fridays will especially be a joke).

  16. As of April 10, 2020, 166 children had died of the flu

    2017-2018 Flu season
    As of April 19, 2019, a total of 186 pediatric deaths had been reported to CDC during the 2017-2018 season. This number exceeds the previously highest number of flu-associated deaths in children reported during a regular flu season (171 during the 2012-2013 season).
    So the Covid saved how mnay children from flu deaths?

  17. This is all a ploy, part of which includes keeping people in fear of each other and socially separated so they forget about the real problems. Similar to the few trillions that were unaccounted for in the US just a few days before 9/11 attacks.

    I knew vast majority of the people were dumb and conformists but I never, in my wildest imagination thought they could be *this* dumb.

    By the way, I think older generations are worse in this regard. They truly did live in better times. Even the authorities were more sane. To tell such people that such authorities could do you wrong is bad as telling them everything they ever believed in is a farce, which could be thought of as a death sentence since the grasp of reality is what keeps you going as a human being.

    Sigh, I don’t think we’ve seen the worst yet.

    I’m an Asian living in the west, not all of us are stupid, but conformist beliefs are especially strong.

  18. Dennis,

    I’m convinced that more children have died as a result of the response to COVID-19 than from COVID-19 itself. There are a lot of ways that the response can kill children:

    -Job losses can keep a family from being able to buy sufficient food or seek medical attention.
    -Even families with money refrain from sending children to routine checkups or getting vaccines, out of fear of infection at the hospital.
    -There are reports of parents leaving their children in cars so that they won’t get infected in a store.
    -Masks are a choking hazard for small children. Official guidelines usually say not to put masks on children age 2 or younger for this reason, but how many parents force younger children to wear masks out of panic? Even in older children masks can raise the risk of infection (especially as children are probably not going to be careful in terms of keeping the mask clean and not touching it).

    Now there’s been no tracking of any of these things, so it’s impossible to say how many children died from them. But according to the CDC there have been only 49 deaths of children of age 14 or lower due to COVID-19. Just the number of children who got a fatal disease that went unnoticed, or who caught a fatal disease due to lack of immunization, could easily be over 49 when you consider the whole country.

    And this is just considering deaths. This isn’t considering the decrease in quality of life in the children forced to miss meals, but not quite enough to kill them, or the ones that had a non-life threatening condition go untreated, or were unable to learn due to distance learning, etc.

  19. The contradiction is that they think hospitals are so important that they had to lockdown for “flattening the curve” while not pointing out so many people either being rejected or flat out refusing to go to hospitals because of Covid-19.

    It’s almost like they are admitting that hospitals were previously not effective. None of the non-Covid patients ever needed hospitals right? Oh, but for Covid it makes all the difference!

  20. David: “I knew vast majority of the people were dumb and conformists but I never, in my wildest imagination thought they could be *this* dumb.” – Amen, brother!

    Speaking of dumb: I’ve seen legal disclaimers printed on boxes and labels of masks that specifically state they will not protect from Covid and other viruses! Yet we are being told not only that this is a uniquely deadly virus in world history, but that the best way to be “safe” is to walk around wearing a muzzle on your nose and mouth all day. And Biden is basing his campaign around commercials that call for a national mask mandate (which no President has the slightest legal or constitutional authority to do – even less so than the tinpot wannabe dictator mayors and governors) and claims he is the candidate who listens to “the science.” Absolutely batsh*t freaking bonkers.

    Rudolph: Yes, not just kids, but among adults as well, there is no doubt the response has been more destructive and ultimately deadly than the virus, and the fallout and repercussions will be with us for much longer.

  21. Why the panic? That’s very easy.
    Two words: Computer models
    Two more words: Computer ignorance

    That’s it. You had people completely ignorant of the limitations of computer modeling (and likely quite ignorant about computer science in general) making outrageous predictions based on these models. And the politicians and public ate it up, because they had no idea either.

    Here’s an example of the folly:

    Author’s names and positions
    Jasmine GARDNER, PhD, Post-doc in Structural Biology
    Lander WILLEM, PhD, Post-doc in Infectious Disease Modelling
    Wouter VAN DER WIJNGAART, PhD, Professor in Engineering
    Shina Caroline Lynn KAMERLIN, PhD, Professor of Structural Biology
    Nele BRUSSELAERS, MD MSc PhD, Associate Professor in Clinical Epidemiology
    Peter KASSON, MD PhD, Associate Professor of Cell and Molecular Biology

    Look at all those supposedly smart people! And now add (drum roll please) computer models! Let’s see what kind of bullshit they can spit out!

    Estimated deaths in Sweden by July 1 with no mitigation: 96,000
    Estimated deaths in Sweden by July 1 with some voluntary mitigation: 96,000 – 15% = 81,600
    Estimated deaths in Sweden by July 1 WITH LOCKDOWN: 96,000 – 50% = 48,000

    Actual deaths in Sweden by August 17th with no lockdown: 5,790

    Close guys, real close. Let’s hear it for computer models!

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.11.20062133v1.full.pdf

    David Burns

  22. David Burns:
    “Look at all those supposedly smart people! And now add (drum roll please) computer models! Let’s see what kind of bullshit they can spit out!

    Estimated deaths in Sweden by July 1 with no mitigation: 96,000
    Estimated deaths in Sweden by July 1 with some voluntary mitigation: 96,000 – 15% = 81,600
    Estimated deaths in Sweden by July 1 WITH LOCKDOWN: 96,000 – 50% = 48,000

    Actual deaths in Sweden by August 17th with no lockdown: 5,790”

    Actually they were trolling all of us. Models are total deaths not just for 1 year, but for all years where Covid-19 exists. So if you take estimated deaths numbers and divide by the real numbers per year you get the approximate amount of time they’ll lock us down!

  23. The lies they are perpetrating goes so far as to the websites that call themselves “Fact Checkers” and go to supposedly debunk the claims that go against the established narratives.

  24. A New York City blogger penned an article, NYC IS DEAD FOREVER… HERE’S WHY making a persuasive case that the city will not be coming back from this. The city’s power elite must realize it. The billionaires of finance, media, real estate, et cetera, who run the city are men with a nose for wealth and power. They rose to the top by analyzing data and making accurate business decisions — for example, former mayor Bloomberg’s business is all about aggregating financial info. They are not fools (the current mayor is, but he’s a flunky for the elites). They must understand what they are doing. The accurate numbers concerning corona-scam are available and known. So why are they deliberately murdering their own city? They only act for the acquisition of power and money so they must have a plan for turning this into profit and power at some future point.

    One possible explanation is that they expect to ride this manufactured crisis to global power in concert with their globalist institutions, the WEF, UN, and so forth. The financial wizards, experts at profiting from bankruptcy and distressed property, buying up assets for pennies on the dollar in the crash, and then restoring profitable conditions with themselves the new owners of valuable assets. Nations crushed, constitutions shredded, totalitarian regimes ascendant — the great reset, the new normal. If that’s their plan it’s breathtakingly audacious. And evil. And shocking how little resistance has been mounted so far.

    As for why the people are unable to see and understand the actual numbers of corona-scam, and understand the fraud being perpetrated, and so save themselves, their cities, and their nations, I wonder if Yuri Bezmanov’s explanation isn’t the best. He claims that a sustained campaign of ideological subversion can produce a population that cannot use their minds to accurately process information, to the point that even when true facts are presented they will refuse to believe it. We are seeing just such a fantastic scenario today, and certainly we have been the victims of a very powerful and sustained campaign of leftist infiltration, subversion, disinformation, and psychological warfare.

  25. James Altucher, who penned the “New York City is Dead” article, has a new blog post up describing the reaction; a tsunami of hate.

    Mencken’s quote is evergreen:

    “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”

    ~ H. L. Mencken

  26. Vince, come the Restoration, the first edict of the new King will be to confiscate the shoes of all the women.

  27. Dean Ericson–
    “I wonder if Yuri Bezmanov’s explanation isn’t the best. He claims that a sustained campaign of ideological subversion can produce a population that cannot use their minds to accurately process information, to the point that even when true facts are presented they will refuse to believe it.”

    The Mainstream Media has been doing this for years. The general public is fully inculcated with deception. To them the truth is a lie.

  28. DAV: It seemed to be a successful strategy and no one seemed to care in the least how many people it killed.

    Michael D: I read an article where college age human beings were given statements about race and the statements were attributed to Trump. They hated on Trump just like Pavlov’s dogs drooled at the sight of meat. Then they were told BIDEN made these statements. Their response:
    “We have to get rid of Trump”. So, they want their own RACIST PIG, hair sniffer, inappropriate toucher but not Orange Man Bad. The media has indeed fully innoculated the idiots of America.

  29. Sheri–

    My son Matthew inculcates Liberal B.S. on ABC TV on ‘This Week’ and ‘Good Morning America’ programs. It’s hard to believe he believes all the garbage but I imagine ABC pays well for concurrence, plus Liberal minds are not rational.

  30. Judging from the comments here, it appears that the covid true believers have become aware of this site and want to “rebut” what’s being said here and hopefully have it canceled for heresy.

    But much like their attempts to do the same thing to Alex Berenson, it will only make Briggs even stronger.

    They don’t get it. They just don’t understand red pills at all. You can’t shame people into forgetting the truth.

  31. The sickening promotion of Cuomo as an exemplar of great leadership and sound policy in response to Coronadoom really takes the cake. He even has a self-hagiography coming out soon by a major publisher that will certainly be promoted heavily and declared a bestseller even if few real people actually buy it). Cuomo has more blood on his hands than anyone through nursing home policies designed to kill, yet the media and left wing politicos can’t get enough of fawning over this guy. This country is well and truly doomed.

  32. JR Ewing:

    “Judging from the comments here, it appears that the covid true believers have become aware of this site and want to “rebut” what’s being said here and hopefully have it canceled for heresy. ”

    I don’t see what you refer to

    The only person opposed to the post is Sylvain and he’s been around a long time

  33. There are a few apologists for face muzzling, anti-social distancing, lockdowns, etc., who at least partially buy the mainstream coronadoom narrative, but yes, Sylvain seems to be the only one who seems to be a true believer in the Narrative.

  34. Dennis and JR

    I don’t believe any one else here on this post is “FOR” masks (not even me).

    Elsewhere, on other posts, there may be few who meet your and JR’s description, many of those old-timers as well.

    A few (new) people have asked legitimate questions about Briggs’ numbers and I’ve always try to address those as well (this is update 27, so explaining in every update is counterproductive (for Briggs), but when questions arise…)

  35. Went for my eye examination yesterday and partook of the “protocols”. The nice masked receptionist behind the Plexiglas shield peppered me with a page of yes/no questions about my general health, if I’d been out of the country or in groups of 10 or more. She took my temperature with a small, handheld IR thermometer and completed the page. OK, so far. Then I had to sign the form with a “disinfected” ballpoint pen. After signing, I had to drop said pen on a paper towel for imminent decontamination or perhaps disposal by incineration. Talk about superstition! Has anyone caught any infection from a ballpoint pen after 10 seconds of use? I shake my head.

  36. Some take aways:

    Not only is HCQ effective but at one time was suggested as a treatment for influenza A
    “In vitro inhibition of human influenza A virus replication by chloroquine”

    The Indonesia study about Vitamin D – I had heard of but I was concerned whether you needed D naturally or could supplement – take away best results > 30 ng/ml which she said could not be achieved naturally

    Head of WHO was the #3 man in a Marxist terrorist Ethiopian organization

    Discusses Gates heavily as well

    Oh when I looked up the HCQ for flu, I noticed something about HCQ and dengue

  37. While I don’t wish to absolve Gates of conspiracy charges, let’s not forget the Peter Principle, the Precautionary Principle and the Superhero Goal. The Superman generation are the Boomers. The Generation that followed them is no less susceptible. The precautionary principle is beaten into us. It is a pretty rare person that comprehends the danger in the Precautionary Principle. There are many who ignore it, but most of those who ignore it will bow down to it when presented. These two things combine to leverage the Peter Principle to its maximum level. We are all incompetent. We just get better at it when bigger decisions are involved.

  38. Brad, it’s worse than the Peter Principle. It’s the Gervais Principle (look it up). The Sociopaths get to the top and put the Clueless in the middle, so the sociopaths can get whatever it is they want (power, money, control). The Clueless are the True Believers in whatever mythology the sociopaths dream up.

  39. I always thought that somehow Gates and Company were in the right place and the right time.

    Years later I found out (“heard/read”) that Gate’s father was a high level manager at IBM at the time.

    Since IBM was ONLY interested in selling hardware, they relinquished the rights to the OS

    Never bothered to confirm this but it seems to fit

    (A longer time ago, I heard (Paul Harvey?) Bill’s college days were spent playing poker because he was “too smart” and bored.)

    Any one?

  40. “I don’t speak of the number of deaths, which were always expected to be in the same range of other outbreaks in the last century, and are. I originally guessed at the lower end; they turned out to be larger than average. Didn’t beat the Asian Flu (2 million) or Hong Kong Kung Fluey (1 million), though it came close to that one. Didn’t beat AIDS (33 million). No. I mean I didn’t foresee the global-sized out-of-proportion panic in response to this wholly expected not-at-all unusual pandemic, a panic best described as Hersteria!”

    Why don’t you speak of the deaths?
    180,000 Not bad enough? It’s on the cusp of that figure in your country. >200,000 is looking very likely.
    The US DID open up too soon. That is apparent now. The rioting probably did much of the damage, what a shame.

    I guess if it goes to a million, which nobody think it will at this stage you’ll just say,
    “See doing nothing would be better, we didn’t save any lives”

    Yet shielding and preventing transmission is saving and has saved lives. I’m not convinced you would dare disagree with that. Probably you’d have to invoke the word “lockdown”. Or something.

    So economy is more important than saving life?
    How much more important? Who is going to want to make merry when so many lives are lost? Only those who haven’t known anybody who has died from the disease.

    One of the worst parts as an outsider looking across the duck pond is that Trump could have really done with more support from his own side on this. Instead his own side lead him astray in childish protests against masks and pretences of slavery and tyranny. No reasoned moderate argument was offered by those who the democrats put in front of the cameras. Your kind of argumentation let it happen. If Trump doesn’t win, that’s going to be a factor.

  41. Why don’t you speak of the deaths?

    You gave one reason yourself: it isn’t bad enough. The number of deaths is well within normal levels for a novel pandemic of the sort we saw in 57′ and 68′.

    There’s also the fact that deaths are – as he has explained repeatedly – badly overcounted anyway. And most importantly, that we stopped dying at levels higher than we normally would at this point of her once “official” numbers hit about 120,000 deaths. Why are you playing dumb when this was explained to you, a lot?

    The US DID open up too soon. That is apparent now.

    This is so far wrong it’s actually the opposite of true. Time has made it abundantly clear that the places that opened earlier did *much much much better than places that locked down longer and harder*.

    Joy, I said this to you once before and I mean it. I have no clue why you’re here. You just keep repeating points both Dr. Briggs and the commenters have repeatedly addressed then act like you’ve come up with some novel objections Dr. Briggs dares not even touch. It’s both very rude and very annoying.

    I mean

    So economy is more important than saving life?

    I can’t believe you are stupid enough to really mean this. It’s too obviously dumb – as if “the economy” is some nebulous thing that has no effect on people’s lives.

    Let me spell it out for you: People are losing their jobs, unable to see their friends or interact, meaning they are losing their homes, can’t support their families, can’t interact, and this is *itself* leading to death.

    And of course, you have been here a long time. You know this. So why would you say something so unbelievably insulting, not to mention unbelievably stupid? So you can feel self-righteous?

  42. Infection fatality rate for Spanish flu 1918/19 H1N1 was around 3%
    650,000 died in the United States.

    8:26 min, (Same graph as previously posted from Gresham college lecture at beginning of the pandemic)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-kvYYPYWFg
    ~~~
    1957 H2N2 Asian flu killed 116,000 people into eUS
    It had an infection fatality rate of .3%
    ~~~
    1968 flu epidemic killed 100,000 people in the US
    32:38, same lecture video

  43. No, Malcom, you are the ride one. What a peculiar attitude you take.
    I can tell you that my comments are sincere on this matte3r. I really do think Briggs is that far out in how he has presented this story. VERY unrealistic and ideological.

    As for repeating points? Plenty of that goes on in various ways from post to post and comment to comment. It has been going on for years. This is just a new subject and an emotive one, for obvious reasons.

    You have decided that my skepticism of Briggs depiction on this epidemic is incorrect. It has nothing to do with righteousness, that’s your bag, righteous anger, especially on Briggs behalf.

    As far as economics goes, it is you who don’t appear to recognise previously made points, BY MANY, not just here, and from the start, that the two are interconnect ted. So, it cuts both ways. Yet the economy is offered as a reason that action should have been different.

    You are simply one more being wise not even after the event yet.

  44. Yes, thank you for posting those numbers. We know; they’re the proof that they were in fact as bad or worse. The population was smaller.

    I really do think Briggs is that far out in how he has presented this story.

    Right, because you repeatedly don’t actually respond to the points he actually makes. You just repeat yourself and pretend he didn’t address it.

    As for repeating points? Plenty of that goes on in various ways from post to post and comment to comment. It has been going on for years. This is just a new subject and an emotive one, for obvious reasons.

    As per usual with you, I have no idea why you wrote this. It is a months old subject and what you said had been responded to, many times. You repeating it doesn’t make it a good objection.

    Yes, lots of people repeat things that were already addressed who know better. That other people are rude doesn’t make you not rude.

    Seriously, what are you even talking about?

    As far as economics goes, it is you who don’t appear to recognise previously made points, BY MANY, not just here, and from the start, that the two are interconnect ted.

    This is nonsensical word salad. What you said – word for word is “so economy is more important than saving lives?” Nothing you wrote here has anything to do with that comment, which is a vile thing to say.

    You are simply one more being wise not even after the event yet.

    Well, flapjacks do juggling outside of the bird cage.

    See, I can write random strings of words too!

  45. The US population in 1918 was 100 million or less than a third of today! Around the world 50 million died out of 1.8 billion.

    In 1957 US pop was half of today, and 1968 it was a third.

    We weren’t even at 100K for US deaths when people started acting maniacally.

    Malcolm the Cynic:
    “So economy is more important than saving life?

    I can’t believe you are stupid enough to really mean this. It’s too obviously dumb – as if “the economy” is some nebulous thing that has no effect on people’s lives.

    Let me spell it out for you: People are losing their jobs, unable to see their friends or interact, meaning they are losing their homes, can’t support their families, can’t interact, and this is *itself* leading to death.”

    Exactly. People isolate economy with life because it fits their narrative. Because when you don’t give a thought or you live a sheltered life or you are not affected you think it means their ability to buy iPhones every year are compromised.

  46. Malcom,
    Your anger is your own problem. You’re easily triggered.

    Like I said, the numbers speak for themselves. The rest is commentary.
    It is too early to tell. You are being ‘wise after the event’, As if the event is even over!

    Wait until next flu season, at the very least.

  47. Your anger is your own problem. You’re easily triggered.

    I don’t care what you think.

    Like I said, the numbers speak for themselves.

    No, they don’t. You need context to understand. Jettisoning context is dishonest, irresponsible, and what you have been doing consistently.

    It is too early to tell. You are being ‘wise after the event’, As if the event is even over!

    Deaths dropped down to normal seasonal levels weeks ago. But let’s put that aside. I’m not the one saying we need to make massive changes; you are.

    So *you* need to justify why. Repeating things that we’ve all already responded to as if you’ve made a good point is rude, nor helpful, nor does it add anything.

  48. Malcolm & David: Thanks for saving me the trouble of a long response to the latest obfuscations from one of the usual suspects on a Friday night.

    The notion that the US “opened up too early” is just nonsense. We’d be back to normal life by now if we’d followed the Swedish model instead of taking the chimp-out soy-boy and PTA-mom option sponsored by Gates, Fraudci, the WHO, and Event201. But that wouldn’t fit the plan.

    Every comparative study of places that had hard lockdowns and strict mask rules with those that didn’t shows no correlation with virus infection rate, death rate, etc. (one example I saw today: A chart showing county infection rates in Kansas comparing those that had mask mandate with those that didn’t – the former had higher infections rates AFTER mandate was introduced, while the latter dropped). The virus follows basically the same pattern everywhere whatever the policies followed, but early on the response in the US became weaponized and politicized by the Left because they thought it would help beat Trump (who should have followed his instincts instead of taking a hybrid incoherent response – as he tends to do when his back’s against the wall). The Swedish model, which Leftists like to bemoan was by far the most sane in the West. The mistake in the US (and elsewhere) was in doing lockdowns in the first place, rather than targeted protection of the most vulnerable.

    And in any case, the deaths are clearly exaggerated. Does anyone not wonder why deaths from flu and other respiratory and flu-like illnesses are way down this year? They’re all being lumped-in as “Covid” even without actual confirmation by reliable testing whether pre or post-mortem)! The PCR test itself is greatly unreliable and should be considered especially useless when given to asymptomatic people (but the media and Covid-fanatics like pumping them out at industrial rates every day because it helps them massively increases “cases” to keep the paranoia going). The fact is, we have no “excess deaths” or mortality from Covid. Your chances of dying in a car crash are far greater than dying of Covid, but I don’t see any activists out trying to ban cars or pushing for a 10 mph speed limit (After all, wouldn’t just saving one life be worth it, according to the logic people are using to justify Covid-response extremism? How dare you sacrifice a life to slightly faster travel and Amazon Prime delivery times!).

    Speaking of Event 201, I strongly urge everyone to watch Plandemic II. If you weren’t pissed already, you’ll be enraged after it. Much in there I did not know about CDC/NIH (including Fraudci) involvement in late ’90s-early ’00s work on manipulating Coronaviruses (including patent scams and conflicts of interest, help setting up the Wuhan Lab, etc.), more on Gates’ essential malevolence and use of Africans and Indians as guinea pigs in his obsessions with mass vaccinations schemes, the background of the corrupt Ethiopian bought by China and placed at the head the WHO, CDC history with swine flu & vaccine in the ’70s, etc.

    There are unquestionably forces at work in the world, manipulating and controlling things in such evil ways that it shocks me that so many people don’t seem to want to see it. The evidence is there if you have ears to hear and eyes to see. Perhaps most are just terrified at the thought that such malevolence is behind so much in the world, so they just bury their heads in the sand, refuse to see or hear and go about life pretending things are basicallyh fine and the government, Big Pharma, etc. rally have their best interss at heart.

  49. Malcom,
    What I have said does not lac context.
    You seem to think the argument must be always framed in the way of your choosing. THAT is unrealistic in any debate.

    You are insisting that the number of deaths per day in the US at present is now somehow relevant to the number of covid deaths in a specific measure of “concern” which should be “felt” by those managing the response. That is not the whole story though as I would think you must appreciate.

    That is to take a statistical argument about numbers of dead and argue that there’s about the same number of dead as usual! A utilitarian argument which would normally make people here hold up their hands in horror. What would be happening WITHOUT litigation is something that cannot be argued convincingly, only assert loudly with the repeating mantra about panic.

    It is no use trying to claim that My argument is somehow unusual or different from that of the mainstream medical opinion. As if it is somehow a false choice between two approaches here.

    The Trump government has been busy trying to manage this epidemic with so much barracking from his own side that he could have well done without. So you re not adding anything there but more noise for the democrats and media to use and create even more ‘evidence’ of chaos and mismanagement.

    Saying you think I’m rude is not an argument. It’s an insult, of course.

  50. Joy,

    Giving the number of deaths with absolutely NO other data then claiming that they “speak for themselves” is pretty much the definition of lacking context so yes, you do.

    You seem to think the argument must be always framed in the way of your choosing. THAT is unrealistic in any debate.

    Yes Joy, you just posting a large scary number isn’t going to give you an automatic win no matter how much you want it to. Welcome to the real world.

    You are insisting that the number of deaths per day in the US at present is now somehow relevant to the number of covid deaths in a specific measure of “concern” which should be “felt” by those managing the response.

    Generally when somebody uses quotes, it is because they are, you know, quoting someone. Except I didn’t write those words; what are you even quoting?

    Of COURSE it is relevant. The entire reason we care about diseases is that they kill people and make others sick. But covid is no longer killing people in a way unusual for any other diseases at this point of year. So we should be responding to it the way we respond to other diseases.

    What would be happening WITHOUT litigation is something that cannot be argued convincingly, only assert loudly with the repeating mantra about panic.

    First, this isn’t true. Months have passed. Let’s look at the various responses. Did the places that responded more harshly actually do any better? The answer is an easily provable no.

    Second, did we ever have a good reason to think those harsh reactions would do anything? This is another easily provable no. We never had any evidence the lockdowns would actually stop deaths – not to mention we were lied to about what the point of them even was in the first place.

    It is no use trying to claim that My argument is somehow unusual or different from that of the mainstream medical opinion.

    Since *nobody said this*, or cares, why even bring it up?

    So you re not adding anything there but more noise for the democrats and media to use and create even more ‘evidence’ of chaos and mismanagement.

    Trump HAS done a terrible.job handling the pandemic, Joy. He SHOULD be called out for this. That democrats would have done worse is true but not an excuse.

    Saying you think I’m rude is not an argument. It’s an insult, of course.

    Yes, I am calling out for your rudeness and nastiness. It isn’t itself an argument. Nobody said it was.

  51. I’m not rude OR nasty but you say it, so it MUST feel like I am, Malcom.

    Your anger and sarcasm are not an argument either.

    The virus will as I’ve said continue to infect and spread according to what people do by whatever means of enforcement or voluntary action. It won’t stop until natural immunity is achieved.

    When I say it is too early it is on the rather obvious logic of the matter but backed up by Medical staff and virologists who you would dismiss out of hand, since they disagree with your adamant stance.

    How many is too many? If the answer is there isn’t a number, then it reveals the falsity of the argument for what it really is.

    A proxy argument about something rather less covid and rather more American healthcare.?

    I have no strong views on that score but plenty of experience and information about our own system.

    I really think that’s what is behind the panic on the side of the far right skeptics. That is one of the central fallacies which goes unmentioned. There’s anger and panic on both sides. I feel neither. A good deal of disappointment, though.

  52. I’m not rude OR nasty but you say it, so it MUST feel like I am, Malcom.

    What you have said is both rude and nasty, Joy. You say those who disagree don’t care about human lives in favor of a nebulous “economy”. That’s a nasty thing to say. You act like you’re making novel points when they have been responded to, and you ignore the responses. That is rude.

    Your anger and sarcasm are not an argument either.

    No. So what?

    When I say it is too early it is on the rather obvious logic of the matter but backed up by Medical staff and virologists who you would dismiss out of hand, since they disagree with your adamant stance.

    See, this is why you are rude. You claim we’re disagreeing with you just because…well we feel adamant about it. You ignore the reasons WHY we’re disagreeing.

    How many is too many? If the answer is there isn’t a number,

    First, how about this. I’ll give a number as soon as you give an acceptable number of suicides.

    Second, the number doesn’t matter if the responses you are claiming are so necessary are provably not working, as is the case. It could be the whole world. Lockdowns still don’t save lives.

    and Malcom, you have the last word it matters more to you than it does to me.

    Dishonest, rude, AND self-righteous. What a combo.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *