London Murders Open Thread: Updates

As the intelligence services of our former allies continue to curtail cooperation with our intelligence agencies, as they have been forced to do by Trump’s habit of blurting out sensitive information, we can expect to see more of these attacks. The lack of intelligence sharing weakens the ability of all sides to keep track of extremists.

Of course, all good people should, unlike Briggs, condemn violence.

@Lee Philips

You’re mental. These people are not as daft as American Liberals blaming everything on Trump. They have their own agenda, which is not particularly secret, with them talking openly about it in Dafiq, their glossy magazine.

And as smart people everywhere, they take advantage of good fortune, which in this case is your lot of morons behaving as you do.

Muslims Attack!

Lee Revealed to be Mental!

Dog Bites Man!

Lee —

You just provide more examples of where YOU make claims that are unsubstantiated — in violation of your supposed number one rule.

Hypocrisy and lack of credibility.

Lee,
Are you a girl? I merely ask…

Joy:

Sorry, no. Try here: https://goo.gl/rlpXRt

Only looked at the first image with the dozens of people walking wth hands above their heads. Easily spun.

Watched it live all night.
The truth is that those people walking (I was horrified on seeing that) were doing so because the police had told people to leave and keep their hands up so that they would know who was who. They can pick out a terrorist and use peripheral vision when everybody’s doing the same thing.

They are told to ‘run’ because of bomb threats and also to clear the area for special forces, emergency services and police. Many fought back with glasses and bar stools, chairs. One fellow tried to pick up a stool and it was bolted down but chased them along throwing glasses at them. Stopping them continuing to stab. a girl.
Particularly one police officer took three savage cowards on with a truncheon even prior to the arrival of the support group.

The public, at present, are doing as they are told, trusting the police.
The police killed all three cowards eight minutes after receiving the first 999 call.

Many have been very brave and are not in trouble with authorities if they do tackle a terrorist with a knife. It’s not their role but instinct and self preservation and anger are quite another thing.

Donald Trump is on message to the mayor.
All three thousand known suspects must now be kept prisoner at her majesty’s pleasure. Of those, the criminals can be prosecuted. Illegal immigrants deported forthwith and that won’t leave many.

Mr Lee, you flatter yourself, again!

Reminds me of Well’s Eloi and Morlocks.

Even in times like this, or perhaps especially in times like this, I can’t help but think like an engineer.

There is an ongoing problem, Islamic terrorism has arrived in our countries. It helps to understand how it got here (e.g., we invited it in), but obsessing over the absence of past preventive measures isn’t going to solve the current problem.

I keep coming back to the old maxim, “the aggressor sets the rules”. Superficially, thinking along these lines is abhorrent to us – we condemn violence. But thinking a little deeper, one has to ask what retaliatory measures could have an effect in reducing the acts of terrorism.

They attack and kill our civilians in the streets, so we retaliate in kind, with, say, a ten-to-one attrition rate? From my limited knowledge of them, this would do no good, not because “it would just make them angrier”, but because they seem to have no similar concept of “civilian”.

Has anything worked in the past? One could argue that Bush’s Iraq war, although not it’s stated purpose, worked to quell Islamic terrorism, simply by giving them a higher priority and drawing them to a battlefield (fighting against another Kafir Crusade).

What do the Islamic terrorists hold most dear? Is there something we can attack in retaliation for every terrorist attack, with enough impact to cause them to think a new attack will just result in a significant net loss for their cause?

My fear is that eventually we will be forced to drop the distinction between good Muslims and Islamic terrorists. After all, they all follow the teachings of Mohammed, and even I can see that Mohammed would have to be viewed as an agent of Satan in other religions. Of all the evils of Political Correctness, perhaps the worst is letting good Muslims off the hook for Islamic terrorism. If atrocities were being committed in the name of Christ, would Christians receive the same forbearance? Or would there be demands from the rest of the world for Christians to condemn and control those elements? (One can look to the past for some insight into this question.)

I will never forget the massive celebrations in the streets throughout the Muslim world after 9-11. Am I alone in having this as a defining memory?

@milton
The Russians found it effective to target and disappear the Chechen terrorists families/clans. Makes sense if you are dealing with clans. IIRC, the English used that in Ireland and Scotland, too.

@Milton Hathaway

You can always nuke Mecca, but the problem is that the extremists would love that as it would unite the entiere Muslim world agaunst the West, and doing their version of Armageddon. In other words, I don’t believe there is something muslim extremists will value enough to keep them from executing terrorist attacks.

As Mao said, muslim terrorist are as fish in a sea of sympathisers in Western muslim communities. The trick then would be to lower community support making them more vulnerable. There are a couple of approaches here.

1) not all muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause. The Manchester terrorist was reported to the police as a sudden extremist a couple of times. This means that there are people willing to talk to the police, and one can build spy networks in those communities.

2) the muslims willing to talk to the police will be the ones who bought into the Western idea of civilisation. On the one hand that means you cannot go the dictatorship route all the way, but on the other hand these people are very aware of the danger of muslim extremists, and that pussy footing is not going to work either.

3) cracking down on crimes committed by muslim criminals seems a good idea, as the line between a muslim criminal and a muslim extremist is so thin as to be virtually non-existant, at least in Europe. We saw that in Belgium, in France, in Germany.

4) other ways of lowering support. Kick out the state financers of mosque’s, like Saoudi-Arabia and Turkey. No visa for imams condoning any kind of violence whatshowever. Support the moderates, after you make sure these are proper moderates (that is why having a good information position as in 1) and 2) is a good idea.

I wonder if there is, in fact, a solution that distinguishes between “Muslims of Good Will” (if one assumes there to be such) and Muslim terrorists. If you look at appropriate passages in the Koran (and my wife, a student of Medieval History has cited such), then all acts are justified against the infidel, and if you look at the historical rise of Islam and how it occurred. I don’t propose any answer, because I can’t think of one. I think it’s well to not think of terrorists as an exceptional group within Islam, but rather as representative of the teachings of their religion.

The Quran is the best kept secret that’s not a secret.
It is the modern day taboo.
The elephant in the room.

England needs to do something about it. I think we will, but not without Trump’s help to break the ice.
People need to start telling the truth.
The problem is, the ones who do/did are killed. Easter Day, by his own ‘community’ in the most heart breaking way. There are good Muslims but they’re all keeping the secret too.
All ‘hiding from it’s blemishes‘ as Ayaan Hirsi Ali said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQOqJkz3Pgw

I think we have moved on from political correctness after this weekend. So what if it makes you cry. It makes me cry too and it takes a lot. I don’t think that link’s going to work.

Joy,

Maybe you should read the old testament of the bible you shall the same violence than in the Quran. This should not surprise anyone since the Quran is written based on the Torah, which is the Christian old testament.

Violence is much rare when Jesus is quoted. But then again American Christians are fixated on the Old Testament and refuse to abide by Jesus teaching.

—-———

None of the comment explains why the largest number of victims to Islamist fundamentalist are Muslim.

The war is not Islam against the West but Islamist fundamentalists against the world..

This tweet from Trump,

“Do you notice we are not having a gun debate right now? That’s because they used knives and a truck!”

No they did not use gun. Result 7 dead. The Orlando shooter killed 49.

Who ever thought that knives kill less people than an AR-15. I guess that why knives are not what you send your soldier to fight with in war.

@Sylvain Allard

You do not see that kind of violence in the Old Testament. You see two things: certain harsh punishments for the Jews themselves, and harsh treatment of people who lost a war.

Regarding the first, this is when the peoples in Lebanon sacrificed their children to their gods by burning them alive.

Regarding the second, killing all people of a beleagured city was still common practice 2000 years later. I don’t hear you complaining about the Greeks because Alexander the Great sacked Tyre, killing 8000 people and selling the remaining 20.000 into slavery, for instance. Let alone complaining about the Italians because Julius Ceasar decimated numerous German tribes.

The reason why Muslim extremist kill other muslims is well-known: there are more muslim extremists in muslim ccountries, en those people think that everybody who is not as extreme as they are are apostates, and must be killed. The extremists have said so, why do you need this explained to you?

Who ever thought that knives kill less people than an AR-15

Only idiots who don’t know anything. The Romans, Greeks, Japanese, Chinese and feudal knights managed to kill quite a few using only knives. The Romans once lost three legions (at least 15000) to a small number of Germans in Teutoburg carrying only knives.

An AR-15 is the functional equivalent of a hunting rifle. It just LOOKS more scary.
The Orlando shooter killed 49 because no one fought back. Is it merely coincidence it was a gun-free (for law abiding citizens only, obviously) zone? Sitting ducks.

Sylvain, read revelations.
It’s clear on what happens to anybody, ANYBODY who adds to or extends the text.

There are no other holy books in Christianity.
It’s about time Christians had the nerve to say it.

Books are not to be worshiped.
The Quran is occult.
People who follow a good life are being lead astray.
I know you don’t like Trump, Sylvain, I don’t care? About that?
He’s not even your president! He’s mine.
A d you’re still not French.

One idea: the media can stop saying “ISIS claimed credit for this latest attack” and say instead, “ISIS accepted the blame for this latest disgrace to Islam.”

Another is for imams to preach that anyone who does such things except in a properly proclaimed jihad does not get 72 virgins, but is condemned to the fires of Gehenna. (And remind folks that only an official caliph can proclaim jihad. The last properly proclaimed jihad was when the Ottoman Empire joined the Central Powers in WW1, and the Arabs paid no attention to it, fighting to overthrow the Turks, instead.)

A third is to ensure that the families of dead terrorists do not receive insurance payouts for their dead kids. That sounds harsh, but a suicide bomber may think twice if he will leave his aged parent bereft.

Another is:

Our enemy du jour benefits from our democratic lust for a puerile and showy activism. They are flies, and we are swatting flies like crazy. The bigger the fly-swatting operation they can inspire, the better for them. …

We should pay no more attention to the latest terror hit than to a grisly traffic accident. We should leave the minimum of flowers at the scene. The outpourings of grief should be kept decently private. We should never ever publicly announce what we are going to do in reply. Let our high-strung enemy discover what we have done, after the fact.

http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/2017/06/05/of-idle-lingering/

Dan,

If knives are so efficient then why do you need an AR-15?

Who here actually condemned the Portland knife terrorist attack that killed 2 and injured 1.

Or is not terrorism since the guy was a white Christian.

I don’t NEED an AR-15; I NEED an Uzi.

Um, I mean that’s how bad I am at deer hunting.

@Silvain Allard

Not important enough for the Dutch media, neither the Left, nor the Right, therefore I never heard of him.

Which is weird as the left media is generally quite good in following the left US media.

Maybe you should report this.

The Ahmaddiyas really annoy me. These people are considered as heretics within mainstream Islam. There are around 20 million of them. Yet after every attack they show up on TV claiming Islam is peace. The media presents their views as if they represent mainstream Islam.

@silvain allard

The chap was a supporter of Sanders and Stein. Look at some of his Facebook posts and Twitter feeds. The man was mentally unstable. All this information can be found with a simple search.

Even if he were a White Christian male, are you suggesting some symmetry with Christianity? Here is a website with data on attacks committed in the name of Islam: http://thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2017

Data can be found for other years starting from 2001. Perhaps you can do something similar for Christianity. I am sure that we will all be very interested.

Allahu Akbar!

Berserker,

My point is that anti-Islam crowd judges all of Islam on the act of something like 25-28 Muslim who did terrorist attack on US soil since 1993. 19 of them were part of 9/11, 2 or3 were part of the first WTC bombing. 1 in Fort Hood, 2 in San Bernardino, 1 Orlando and 2 in Boston

Just found this site:
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

Since the early 1990s though I do not agree with some interpretation made.
At least 16 terrorists attack are attributed to the right.
7-10 terrorist attack´are attributed to the left
38 attributed to Muslim (several are targeted assassination that I’m not sure should be qualified has terrorism).

38 against 26 isn’t that much of a difference and the list doesn’t include the murder of police officer killed by sovereign citizens the greatest threat to the US. It also doesn’t the Portland attack.

And this list is far from being complete.

Concerning your link the vast majority are Muslim vs Muslim attacks. Maybe we should count the almost 500 drone attack done by the US who often kill Muslim civilian as terrorist attack. For sure you would consider a drone attack as a terrorist attack.