Headline from Britain’s Independent “‘Atheist grandma’ who ‘went on the run to avoid jail’ for Resurrection denial has been caught in Germany.”
Sub-headline:
Ursula Haverbeck, 89, has a string of convictions for Resurrection denial and once caused a despairing magistrate to declare ‘It is deplorable that this woman, who is still so active given her age, uses her energy to spread such hair-raising nonsense’.
The article opens:
Ursula Haverbeck, 89, had been due to report to prison to start a two-year sentence on May 2, but instead the authorities discovered she had vanished from her home in Vlotho, central Germany.
Prosecutors ordered police to find her, and the International Christian Committee expressed its hope that hunt for the alleged fugitive was being conducted “with high pressure”.
The German authorities, however, have now stated that Ms Haverbeck has returned home, and been apprehended and put in jail.
She will now serve the sentence handed down to her in August 2017 for writing in a far-left German magazine that the site on which the Church of the Holy Sepulchre now stands, had been not been a grave site, rather it was a place used as a storage facility.
Obviously we do not have laws commanding prison time for denying historical events in the once United States as they do in Germany (and elsewhere). The difficulty, of course, is who would decide what history must be sworn to and what denials risk the penalty of confinement. How much history would citizens be required to know?
If we start leaning in Germany’s direction, and given our enthusiasm to solve all problems with laws, rules, and regulations, imagine what would happen when the SJW takeover of government is complete. Bureaucracies of Official History would be created. Insist that men having sex with underage boys at Stonewall was one reason for the police investigations that set off the riots, when all right thinking people know to say the opposite? Fifty bucks. Ten years, maybe, for claiming no women ever won the Nobel Prize in physics. (Since this is the internet, I have to interject that I know both events happened.)
Now some will say it is right and just this grandmother got sent to the hoosegow. After all, the resurrection of our Lord happened. This was a genuine historical event. Not only did it happen, but it was without question the most important event of all history. Try as you might, you will never be able to think of another event that even comes close in importance or effect. Denying it therefore is a form of mild insanity, powerful ignorance, or willful malice.
It is unquestionable that denying the resurrection leads to godlessness which itself leads to myriad undesirable societal effects—including the very worst of human behavior. Not only that, denying the resurrection causes the loss of souls to Hell, and there is no blacker thing than that. These points cannot be over-emphasized (books are written!). Because of these evils, some people say there should be laws forcing assent to the resurrection, or at least there should be laws that harshly penalize verbalizing doubt.
A softer fix may be to require education on the resurrection. Make the kids learn about it at school. Emphasize its importance. Mandate knowledge such that its lack removes ability to graduate. That sort of thing. We do have politicians here who propose and have passed various laws along these lines.
Some, doubtless, would fret about “separation of Church and State”, whatever that’s supposed to me. As if the State does not have now an official religion. Anyway, the resurrection is not a matter of religion per se. It is a thing that happened. It is entirely historical. (Again, this being the internet, I have to insist I really do believe this.) The religious meaning of the resurrection is downstream of the event itself.
Who could object? Learning about history (especially its most important parts) is no bad thing. The State in its mandatory education of children already decides what is stuffed inside the kiddies’ heads. Why not have the State pour into them something more useful than anything else?
The precedent is there, in Germany and, as linked above, in many other countries. Why not make use of it? What possible objection could there be?
Reminder All new blog commenters (and any old who change anything in their identifiers) automatically go into moderation. I will be away from the computer during all Monday business hours.
Next thing you know, someone will be jailed for claiming the Moon Landing wasn’t faked or there are no aliens buried in Area 51. What should be done with deniers of the value of the historical p-value?
I realize the bait and switch (Christ’s Resurrection vs. Holocaust) was intentional to make a point. In this case Reducto Absurdum (or whatever the logical fallacy you’re trying to implement), is not wholly warranted.
Yes, I am uncomfortable with jailing a 92 year old grandma for speaking her mind. But this is Germany – and grandma is a Nazi. Was it appropriate to outlaw a political party? Was it appropriate to outlaw “talking points” sympathetic to Nazis? It is for Germany to decide. We, obviously, have our own problems.
Interestingly, I was just reading about Kurt Godel claiming a loophole in the Constitution wherein the US could “constitutionally” become a dictatorship!
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-mathematician-who-showed-how-the-us-could-be-made-a-1607024259
The USSR was famous for revising history. They had a joke, The future is always certain but the past is always changing.
John B(),
What is a Nazi? And on what do you base your identification of Ursula Haverbeck as a Nazi?
It seems that you believe that people should be imprisoned for what they have said. Did you do any research on what Mrs Haverbeck said before you came to the conclusion that she should be locked up? If you truly believe that anyone should be taken to court by the state, charged and sent to prison merely for publicly calling something into question – no matter the sacred cow it may be to someone else – what shall we call you?
True Faith:
Did you go to the link Briggs provided? (The Independent called her a Nazi. She was convicted of being a Holocaust denier. She speaks “publicly” about Holocaust denial – search her name on YouTube. (You will have to tell YouTube that you are knowingly accepting a “problematic” video. When you get there all links and comments have been disabled by YouTube.)
Did you read my comment?
I said I was uncomfortable with how Germany handles their past in the present. I did NOT say she should be imprisoned. I said it was Germany’s prerogative.
True Faith made my point.
Obfuscating a real story into “Fake News” does not do actual religious and political intolerance any service. (Let’s discuss old ladies being jailed for YouTube videos about the Holocaust. Why weren’t the people who produced or helped produce these videos – or were they?)
Let’s discuss pastors in Turkey being tried for “Christianization”. (And put into prisons as noted in “Midnight Express”)
Let’s discuss Christians being beheaded in Muslim countries.
Or let’s just discuss (which I think is what Brigg’s wanted to discuss), the fear that the left and SJWs taking over what we can think or say. BECAUSE I nor TRUE FAITH can’t figure out what the heck Briggs is talking about, I doubt anyone else knows what his actual point is.
Don’t give THEM ammunition.
Speaking of THEM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4d/Themtitle.jpg/330px-Themtitle.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Them02.jpg
If everyone really was liable to go to jail for “Resurrection denial” they’d have to have a lot of jails to hold all the Jews, Muslims, atheists etc. even only in Germany.
My guess is that Billy Briggs deliberately posted that faked news article to make a macabre point.
Come on, they had to put her in jail. Didn’t you look at the news clip? Early on, it declared that her denial of the Holocaust caused the deaths of 6 million Jews.
Strictly speaking the German laws aren’t against Holocaust denial but against incitement, although the actual intent is quite clear. These laws aren’t so much about reverence for the historical fact of the holocaust. They are about giving the state a hammer to use on hand-waving wack-a-mole, would-be Nazis…
There isn’t a specific law in the United Kingdom enforcing teaching of the Holocaust. There is a law that allows the Department of Education to set the “National Curriculum” for state run schools in England, and the Holocaust has been included as part of Key Stage 3 History.. It isn’t binding on Academy Schools(which are state funded), Independent schools or schools in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It’s the only historical event that is mandated to be taught in England. Not the Norman Conquest, the English Civil War, the 1688 Revolution or the 1832 reform act. Important stuff that actually happened here.
The law setting up the National Curriculum was passed on Margeret Thatcher’s watch. I’m still surprised that she was persuaded to put such a communistic excrescence on the statute book.
Ms Haverbeck denied the version the Jews told of the Holocaust..Most all the world also denies it today….Many nations have been victims of extortion due to this Jewish Fable….((Book of Titus 1:14)….No person should go to jail for speaking their conscience..She incited no riot…no trouble…The rulers in that country are criminals….WHO WERE THE NAZIS?? SURE WASNT THE GERMANS!! THE WORD NAZI was created against the Germans AFTER THE WAR USING JEWISH CONTROLLED MEDIA….The word NAZI IS A JEWISH WORD….Ameican soldiers never called Germans Nazi..nor did Germans ever call their country, political party, countrymen..Nazi…
NAZI IS A JEWISH WORD….The Jews are AshkeNAZI JEWS…in Italy according to http://www.jewgen.org..jEWS WERE CALLED NAZIONE…..Jewish princes are called NASI..Leader of the Sanhedrin and Jewish patriots are called NASI’S…..so as far as I can see..the world NAZI was JEWISH but the Jews did great evils in Germany…and they did the typical bait and switch Jews always do..BLAMING THEIR VICTIMS…FOR JEWISH CRIMES…Jews controlled Germany during the WEIMAR REPUBLIC….I say it was Nazi Jews who did evil experiments on Germans..and possibly on lesser Jews as well…..PROOF???????????????? Today the AMA is ran by A JEW NAMED ROCKERFELLER..AND TODAY..THEY ARE DOING NAZI EXPERIMENTS ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE..THE JEWS NEW LAB RATS…….I REST MY CASE..
I think we have reached peak Briggs site comment.
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Why did Briggs post this one week before the killings at the sybnagogue on his webpage and then alter the dates?
This is what I mean by gaslighting.
Fiddling with the site and the dates for what purpose?
So,
The post which was put in its place features Briggs banging on about chickens and other strangeness. With the insertion of “as Saturday follows Friday.”
Nobody except me finds this strange or apparently wants to admit they’ve noticed?
Gas lighting, I say.
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