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	<title>Comments on: Stats 101: Chapter 3</title>
	<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/</link>
	<description>"All manner of statistical analyses cheerfully undertaken."</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Briggs</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-8946</link>
		<dc:creator>Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-8946</guid>
		<description>Shari,

This is from Probability Rule #2, where "ands" become "times."  This is from Chapter 2.

http://wmbriggs.com/blog/books/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shari,</p>
<p>This is from Probability Rule #2, where &#8220;ands&#8221; become &#8220;times.&#8221;  This is from Chapter 2.</p>
<p><a href="http://wmbriggs.com/blog/books/" rel="nofollow">http://wmbriggs.com/blog/books/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shari</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-8943</link>
		<dc:creator>Shari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-8943</guid>
		<description>On your Larry, Moe, Curly problem, why does the "and" when we're taking all three of them mean that we are supposed to multply their individual probabilities together?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On your Larry, Moe, Curly problem, why does the &#8220;and&#8221; when we&#8217;re taking all three of them mean that we are supposed to multply their individual probabilities together?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-7224</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 03:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-7224</guid>
		<description>I hope your approach does attract non-science majors, and teaches them something, too. Fear of math is fairly widespread in most disciplines, so a kinder, gentler way could be enticing.

Lord knows something has to be done to drain the ignorance swamp. And caning students has been outlawed, leaving few other choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope your approach does attract non-science majors, and teaches them something, too. Fear of math is fairly widespread in most disciplines, so a kinder, gentler way could be enticing.</p>
<p>Lord knows something has to be done to drain the ignorance swamp. And caning students has been outlawed, leaving few other choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-7135</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-7135</guid>
		<description>Mike D:

Why do you think it's mostly prospective scientists who are taking  statistics classes?  Most business and Poly-sci students have to take at least a survey course.  This sounds like an idea approach for most of these folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike D:</p>
<p>Why do you think it&#8217;s mostly prospective scientists who are taking  statistics classes?  Most business and Poly-sci students have to take at least a survey course.  This sounds like an idea approach for most of these folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 03:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6544</guid>
		<description>PG -- Chemistry, physics, and other "lab" sciences are one thing, outdoor environmental sciences are quite another. Climate modeling is one example, but all the enviro sciences suffer from junk methods. We call it GAP science: guess all parameters. 

The plethora of multivariate nonsense stats in the enviro sciences with eigen vectors, canonical correlations, community similarities, etc. are complete and utter bogosity. Yet that crap fills journals that fill libraries.

Which is why most enviro sciences have not advanced much beyond Medieval superstition. We are drowning in ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PG &#8212; Chemistry, physics, and other &#8220;lab&#8221; sciences are one thing, outdoor environmental sciences are quite another. Climate modeling is one example, but all the enviro sciences suffer from junk methods. We call it GAP science: guess all parameters. </p>
<p>The plethora of multivariate nonsense stats in the enviro sciences with eigen vectors, canonical correlations, community similarities, etc. are complete and utter bogosity. Yet that crap fills journals that fill libraries.</p>
<p>Which is why most enviro sciences have not advanced much beyond Medieval superstition. We are drowning in ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Pompous Git</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6453</link>
		<dc:creator>Pompous Git</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 03:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6453</guid>
		<description>Matt

You seem to me to be on the right track. It's certainly what this old fart needs :-)

MikeD, I sympathise. I come across scientists all the time who don't understand the difference between scientific law and scientific theory. That's pretty basic stuff. There's an awful lot of assumption goes on in science classes as Feynman pointed out often enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt</p>
<p>You seem to me to be on the right track. It&#8217;s certainly what this old fart needs <img src='http://wmbriggs.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>MikeD, I sympathise. I come across scientists all the time who don&#8217;t understand the difference between scientific law and scientific theory. That&#8217;s pretty basic stuff. There&#8217;s an awful lot of assumption goes on in science classes as Feynman pointed out often enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Briggs</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6440</link>
		<dc:creator>Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 19:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6440</guid>
		<description>What I want to be easy are the computational aspects, which are  a pain in the ass particularly in classical statistics.  Too many ad hoc formulae to be memorized.

The problem is, you can make the students work hard and many can kind sorta recall how to hand calculate something, but they cannot remember what it means.

The immense effort of memorizing that this statistic is divided by n, the other by the square root of n-1, etc., etc.  can not make you remember that your goal in the first place was not to say something about some mysterious statistic, but about some real observable thing.

It is a good point to not assume students are as dumb as most professors think they are. I have been told routinely that students will not be able to (a) understand modern statistics (even though it is more intuitive to them than frequentism), and (b) they cannot type commands into a computer.  I ignore both of these warnings and the students do fine.

Anyway, the first 7 chapters of the book are just groundwork, necessary material to understand what probability and statistics are really doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I want to be easy are the computational aspects, which are  a pain in the ass particularly in classical statistics.  Too many ad hoc formulae to be memorized.</p>
<p>The problem is, you can make the students work hard and many can kind sorta recall how to hand calculate something, but they cannot remember what it means.</p>
<p>The immense effort of memorizing that this statistic is divided by n, the other by the square root of n-1, etc., etc.  can not make you remember that your goal in the first place was not to say something about some mysterious statistic, but about some real observable thing.</p>
<p>It is a good point to not assume students are as dumb as most professors think they are. I have been told routinely that students will not be able to (a) understand modern statistics (even though it is more intuitive to them than frequentism), and (b) they cannot type commands into a computer.  I ignore both of these warnings and the students do fine.</p>
<p>Anyway, the first 7 chapters of the book are just groundwork, necessary material to understand what probability and statistics are really doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6436</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 18:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6436</guid>
		<description>"Face it. The vast majority of students who sit through statistics classes never again compute their own regression models, factor analyses, etc., etc. But they often read these kinds of results prepared by others. I want them, as their eyes meet a p-value, say to themselves, ?Aha! Here is one of those p-value things Stats 101 warned me about! Sure enough, it is being misused yet again. I don?t know the right answer in this study, but I do know what is being claimed is too certain."

Okay. But we call this aiming low, or reduced expectations.

If a scientist-in-training, someone who will be using complex statistical methods, gets a "D" in regular statistics, should we still give them a science diploma?

Answer: it happens all the time!!!!

At its very heart, statistics is the Scientific Method. Logical inference. Using measurements, which are generally numbers. I sympathize with those who cannot speak Algebra, but does that mean we should hire them to fill slots in Science Dept., and accept their scientific pronouncements?

This is a real world problem. As a consulting statistician I deal every day with high level Ph.D. science project leaders who cannot tie their own shoes, statistically speaking. And their "science" output is a pile of stinking ******. Yet they get the big bucks, and what's worse, their putrid abortions of science become Law!

There may be virtues to making it easy, but there are also drawbacks. Do you want to undergo surgery when your doc is a quack? Do you wish to have your economy ruined, freedoms curtailed, future destroyed, because the "scientists" in charge have no idea what the Scientific Method is, and are just power-tripping PC dream-it-ups while staring at a brick wall?

Answer: it happens all the time!!!!

So I have mixed emotions. Don't underestimate your students. And if 9 out of 10 can't hack it, maybe be thankful for No. 10. Don't blame yourself for the General Decline of Intelligence. Instead preserve and nurture what you can when the opportunity arises.

All of which is not a criticism of the Book, which is coming along nicely. I do sense some desperation, though, involving the desire to teach and convey Knowledge. Which is not a bad thing. I feel the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Face it. The vast majority of students who sit through statistics classes never again compute their own regression models, factor analyses, etc., etc. But they often read these kinds of results prepared by others. I want them, as their eyes meet a p-value, say to themselves, ?Aha! Here is one of those p-value things Stats 101 warned me about! Sure enough, it is being misused yet again. I don?t know the right answer in this study, but I do know what is being claimed is too certain.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay. But we call this aiming low, or reduced expectations.</p>
<p>If a scientist-in-training, someone who will be using complex statistical methods, gets a &#8220;D&#8221; in regular statistics, should we still give them a science diploma?</p>
<p>Answer: it happens all the time!!!!</p>
<p>At its very heart, statistics is the Scientific Method. Logical inference. Using measurements, which are generally numbers. I sympathize with those who cannot speak Algebra, but does that mean we should hire them to fill slots in Science Dept., and accept their scientific pronouncements?</p>
<p>This is a real world problem. As a consulting statistician I deal every day with high level Ph.D. science project leaders who cannot tie their own shoes, statistically speaking. And their &#8220;science&#8221; output is a pile of stinking ******. Yet they get the big bucks, and what&#8217;s worse, their putrid abortions of science become Law!</p>
<p>There may be virtues to making it easy, but there are also drawbacks. Do you want to undergo surgery when your doc is a quack? Do you wish to have your economy ruined, freedoms curtailed, future destroyed, because the &#8220;scientists&#8221; in charge have no idea what the Scientific Method is, and are just power-tripping PC dream-it-ups while staring at a brick wall?</p>
<p>Answer: it happens all the time!!!!</p>
<p>So I have mixed emotions. Don&#8217;t underestimate your students. And if 9 out of 10 can&#8217;t hack it, maybe be thankful for No. 10. Don&#8217;t blame yourself for the General Decline of Intelligence. Instead preserve and nurture what you can when the opportunity arises.</p>
<p>All of which is not a criticism of the Book, which is coming along nicely. I do sense some desperation, though, involving the desire to teach and convey Knowledge. Which is not a bad thing. I feel the same way.</p>
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		<title>By: noahpoah</title>
		<link>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6407</link>
		<dc:creator>noahpoah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 03:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2008/05/16/stats-101-chapter-3/#comment-6407</guid>
		<description>Italian soccer training camp indeed. Excellent video.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Italian soccer training camp indeed. Excellent video.</p>
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